RogerH Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Hi Iain, very interesting. My 'tap' sounds as though it could be a follower. When I looked last Summer the #1 tappet was galled (cam lobe OK). When replaced (all 8 tappets) the tapping was still there at the front. So in the next few weeks I shall remove the head and see what is going on. I'm concerned that it could be a small end as they were replaced last May. This could involve quite a few parts being removed. Thanks for your info. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted March 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Hi Roger, Surely little end would not rattle if you pulled the plug lead. No noise with lead off = problem... ? Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 That is interesting - I didn't know that. I'll give it a try when I get the GB installed. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Even with no lead on, little end will rattle on bottom of the stroke under reversion of torque (well mine did !). Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Even with no lead on, little end will rattle on bottom of the stroke under reversion of torque (well mine did !). Mick Richards +1 as i said on another topic remove the plug so the is no load. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LGFromage Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Hi Iain, very interesting. My 'tap' sounds as though it could be a follower. When I looked last Summer the #1 tappet was galled (cam lobe OK). When replaced (all 8 tappets) the tapping was still there at the front. So in the next few weeks I shall remove the head and see what is going on. I'm concerned that it could be a small end as they were replaced last May. This could involve quite a few parts being removed. Thanks for your info. Roger Loose generator pulley? Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Hi Tim, if only. I think it is more complicated and deep seated than that. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 My '3 hs started to perform a bit of a "death rattle" at startup, not that load, but something hat wasn't there a year ago. Also on a sortie to Tangmere Museum on Tuesday, going up Bury Hill - flat out in O/D third - I believe I could hear something knocking Although once started, for normal driving all seems just fine - always get good oil pressure. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted March 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Well it was a lovely day in Devon, so i gave my self an hour off and drove 75 miles for the fun of it. Car developed a bit of a rattle for a while so stopped checked the engine bay for spanners...my usual trick, nothing to be found. Re packed the tool bag in the passenger footwell and all was well Fingers crossed this is the end of the sorry saga. Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Hi Iain, good to hear that you are on the road to recovery with the cra. I have my GB out at the moment so I attacked the engine. Head off - no issues found Lift out the cam followers - #7 had a small amount of galling; so have replaced with a good used follower. The cam lobes look very good (looking down the follower holes). I have a significant oil leak from the timing chain case cover oil seal (new seal and hub last Summer). Can't see how this would make a tapping sound but the cover is coming off. My silly attempt to remove the bare minimum of engine bits has failed miserable - it is turning into a nut/bolt restoration Tomorrow I should have the cover off. I'm hoping to see some tell tale sign but I don;t hold out much hope. If nothing shows then I remove the cam The onto the sump and remove the pistons starting at the front. Would a broken ring make a tapping sound. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Hi Iain, good to hear that you are on the road to recovery with the cra. I have my GB out at the moment so I attacked the engine. Head off - no issues found Lift out the cam followers - #7 had a small amount of galling; so have replaced with a good used follower. The cam lobes look very good (looking down the follower holes). I have a significant oil leak from the timing chain case cover oil seal (new seal and hub last Summer). Can't see how this would make a tapping sound but the cover is coming off. My silly attempt to remove the bare minimum of engine bits has failed miserable - it is turning into a nut/bolt restoration Tomorrow I should have the cover off. I'm hoping to see some tell tale sign but I don;t hold out much hope. If nothing shows then I remove the cam The onto the sump and remove the pistons starting at the front. Would a broken ring make a tapping sound. Roger Got the engine in my 4a in bits at the moment and it has the top ring broken on 3 out of 4 pistons and no tapping noise but more of a slight clunking when pulling. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Hi Stuart, thanks for that. Mine sounds like two ball bearings tapped together. Constant. Hasn't changed since I put the engine together last May. Not louder or quieter. Although I have found some galling (now and last October) I think that is not the problem. All the followers move very freely. I am minded to refit the followers I removed back in the 90's as these would be original ST parts and were in good condition. Unless I find a gremlin in the timing chain area I will remove the pistons and see if there is an issue there. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Personally I wouldn't be tempted to fit a used follower unless you've marked it for position and it goes back onto the same cam and cam lobe. Cams and followers are fussy buqqers and will use any excuse to start marking and making noises. If I'd have to replace a follower on a used cam I'd use a new one, then both the surfaces can self align and wear back into one another. Where I've saved a used cam and followers, all are wrapped and the followers individually marked as per each cam lube position to allow them to go back into an engine without them realising it may not be their original home ! If not in the same engine each follower has to be confirmed as free moving both up and down and spinning in the block. As has been pointed out any surface finish on replacement cams has to be polished off and the surfaces lubbed prior to fitting with the appropriate substance as recommended by the supplying cam dealer. If you have a problem with the timing chain tensioner it can cause a tick or rattle depending upon the fracture or cause and that would be my next inspection before removing the pistons, cos it's easier. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Hi Mick, very sensible as usual. I'll be looking into the timing chain case first (this afternoon) Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Timing cover off, with spark plugs out turn over the engine by turning the "dog bolt" on end of the crank, you may pick up a noise from the front of the engine or hear it from deeper within.. Then again if it's a "tensioned" timing chain tensioner problem, without it being tensioned it may not make the noise but at least you can inspect it and see if it shows signs of distress. I remember when building my first race engine hearing this chuk chuk noise as I turned the engine over and stripping the front timing chain cover off in despair as to why I seemingly couldn't achieve what other engine builders could do. Then I found out it was the glutinous STP additive I'd added to the chain and tensioner that was "glooping" and smacking back together making the noise ! makes you feel foolish but glad I checked. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 ....this afternoon came and went. Too busy with other things. Footy tomorrow. So it looks like Sunday. Roger or Monday Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted March 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Well 500 miles on the new followers and quiet as a mouse.......Famous last words. :-) Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3739 Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Squeak squeak!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Hi Iain, I'm awaiting gearbox oil to arrive then I can see if my knock has improved.. Good news on your rebuild. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) Hi Roger, Did you ever find out what your ticking noise was. I came upon this thread while searching for Tappet noises. I have had a persistent 'Tick' in my engine ever since I rebuilt it and it is too long ago for me to remember what I did with the followers when I replaced them. I also can't remember who supplied them although they were a quality item to go with a Piper cam. (At the time Piper couldn't supply a set of followers). I have in the past checked the timing chain and its tensioner and they are both in order. Following on from Iain, I have recorded three videos of the engine running, one just after start up when it still has a bit of choke applied and then two others as the engine has warmed up to normal operating temperature. They sound remarkably similar to those recorded by Iain and I suppose I am just looking for corroboration before I lift the head - not something I particularly want to do. Rgds Ian PS Iain if you or anyone else would like to comment on the noise, feel free. PPS Apologies if you are unable to open the files but Ih ave had problems in finding a format that the forum will allow me to upload and to compress the original files to a reasonable size. EN 1 copy.mov EN 2 copy.mov EN 3 copy.mov Edited May 8, 2018 by Ian Vincent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 Hi Ian, it turned out that the cam was knackered from almost day one. I did an engine rebuild and when the head cam back it was beyond repair (in my time frame) so I bought a Moss fully built head. The rebuild also had a new standard cam. The tapping started almost from day one. When comparing with Iains problems I ruled out the cam as it was new. Roll on three years The knocking never went away despite me pretending that it did. This January I removed the head and cam and lo and behold 5 or 6 followers were badly galled. #1 & 2 lobs were very very badly damaged. I fitted a Moss TT1104N cam (Road cam) and their TT followers £££ The cam was very unpleasant so I removed it and fitted a Newman PH-1 - yum yum what a difference. Not as vicious at the TT cam but seriously better quality and performance than the standard cam. Prior to putting it all back together I decided to test the valve springs and they were/are seriously more stiffer than standard springs. So I fitted standard springs in the head. I suspect the uprated valve springs were too much for the barely adequate standard cam hardness. So with it all together Newman cam and standard valve springs it goes like a train with no knocking noises. If you have a noise then take some brave pills and pull the cam. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 Thank you for that Roger, so the standard valve springs do they include the triple springs on the exhaust? I don't rev the nuts off my engine so I wonder if the auxiliary spring is necessary? And if it isn't, can I just remove it or do I need to do something to the seat? Rgds Ian PS Could you play the videos I posted? Did they sound similar to yours? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 Hi Ian, yes the triple springs were there. Even with these they are less stiff than a pair of uprated springs. I'm not sure that you can simply remove a spring. Played the videos and the sound is just rackety. Could be anything, but doesn't sound good. Mine was a single tap at the front end until the last few weeks when the rest of the orchestra chimed in. If you want it sounding better I think you will need to take it apart. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 It sounds rackety because the tappets are set at .015 in accordance with the camshaft instructions. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 Hi Ian, my 4A with the Newman PH-1 cam also has 0.015" gaps but is reasonably quiet(ish). Perhaps my softer springs are more forgiving Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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