foster461 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Wiring loom is installed meaning the dashboard, engine bay including horns are connected but there are no lights, no control head yet and the overdrive is not yet connected up. All unconnected wires are insulated. I could in theory connect a battery and test what is already connected and once the weather improves restart the engine. I have hydraulics so could drive the tub up and down the driveway Just wondering if there is a power up strategy that limits the harm in the event that I have done something stupid behind the dashboard. Will the three fuses pretty much protect me ? Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 The fuses dont necessarily fully protect. First check is ignition switch off and just earth lead on the battery, then bring the other lead to the battery and if you get a flash as you touch the battery post then you have a problem and you need to check through everything. Never tighten any battery clamp fully to start in case you suddenly need to remove one! Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 The fuses dont necessarily fully protect. First check is ignition switch off and just earth lead on the battery, then bring the other lead to the battery and if you get a flash as you touch the battery post then you have a problem and you need to check through everything. Never tighten any battery clamp fully to start in case you suddenly need to remove one! Stuart. Thanks Stuart. Perhaps for some added protection I could use another inline fuse for that initial battery connection. I wont be starting the engine and there are no headlamps or horns for this initial test so I could use a very low amp fuse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Congrats! Perhaps you should read this - from page 8 down to the end: http://www.advanceautowire.com/tr2od.pdf Some useful tips. Furthermore: keep a fire extinguisher at hand. Under no circumstances a powder ext. The powder will cause havoc on your car's electrics. Use the one that's used by professionals near computers and printers. Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steve clark Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 What is the best type of fire extinguisher to carry? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 It is best to ask our own firefighter here on the forum: Fireman049. Tom knows that sort of things. Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) What is the best type of fire extinguisher to carry? There are several fairly recent and extensive threads on this subject. Edited February 11, 2015 by Don H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Thanks Menno ~ I would recommend an inert gas (Co2) type extinguisher for car use but be prepared to apply more of the extinguishing media because it quickly dissipates and allows the fire to re-ignite. Use a dry powder type extinguisher and you'll be forever trying to get rid of the powder residue ~ believe me, I know. Fire Brigades use high pressure water hose reel jets to deal with car 'infernos'. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) I carry a 2.5 lb Amerex Halotron extinguisher in the front of my car. This low-ozone-depleting chlorofluorochemical extinguisher is especially good for electrical fires and would leave no residue. I have a bigger one at the front of my garage when I work on the TR. http://amerex-fire.com/products/halotron-i-clean-agent-extinguishers/ I like Stuart's comment to leave the battery connection finger tight, so it can be pulled off quick -- part of my procedures, too. Edited February 11, 2015 by Don H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 in my garage i have both a foam and co2 extinguisher wall mounted - one at each end - for in the car could not find anything other than powder in small circa 800g size Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I carry a 2.5 lb Amerex Halotron extinguisher in the front of my car. This low-ozone-depleting chlorofluorochemical extinguisher is especially good for electrical fires and would leave no residue. I have a bigger one at the front of my garage when I work on the TR. http://amerex-fire.com/products/halotron-i-clean-agent-extinguishers/ I like Stuart's comment to leave the battery connection finger tight, so it can be pulled off quick -- part of my procedures, too. I am less keen on this method of disconnecting the battery. I f the battery has recently been on charge, then there may well be Hydrogen, & Oxygen around the top in just the right proportions to explode. The last thing you want is a battery with the top blown off, & acid slashed everywhere. Better to make the disconnection away from the battery, i.e. at the solenoid, or, keep the battery on the floor, & use jump leads to connect to the car. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) The Montreal Protocol of 1989 banned the production and use of Halons, in the world. This was possibly the first time that the World came together and did something to prevent environmental change. It was necessary because of the damage that Halons did to the Ozone Layer, that had caused a large hole over Antarctica. Halon production was banned, globally, and in particular their use in fire extinguishers. Except in America. The rest of the world made do with other agents, like foam, CO2 and dry powder. All halons were destroyed, except for a few exemptions such as military vehicles, and aircraft. In America, halons are recycled from applications where they have not been released and into extinguishers for private vehicles. So those halons will be released eventually. Thank you, America. While the rest of the world shouldered the problem and cured the Ozone layer - the Hole is getting smaller - you went on using and releasing halons. I'm sorry, Don H.. your advice is useless in the Rest of the World, where we cannot buy or use a Halon extinguisher, by Law. Oh, and "low ozone depletion"? Halon 1301, as used in extinguishers, has an Ozone Depletion Potential SIXTEEN times that of the index substance Carbon Tetrafluoride. See the US Environmental Protection Agency website: http://www.epa.gov/ozone/defns.html#odp "Ozone Depletion Potential" near bottom of page. John Edited February 12, 2015 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
flinty Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Stan. For a first time power up or even any work on vehicle electrics I use a 10AMP MCB {miniature circuit breaker } The type you would use in your house. Fit a metre of cable to each terminal and a crocodile clip to the other ends and you have a very safe and resettable link. Just disconnect the battery earth and clip on the MCB to the earth terminal on the battery and clip the other terminal to a good earth point on the car and then click the MCB into the on position, if you have a fault then it will trip straight away. Steve. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) The Montreal Protocol of 1989 banned the production and use of Halons, in the world. This was possibly the first time that the World came together and did something to prevent environmental change. It was necessary because of the damage that Halons did to the Ozone Layer, that had caused a large hole over Antarctica. Halon production was banned, globally, and in particular their use in fire extinguishers. Except in America. The rest of the world made do with other agents, like foam, CO2 and dry powder. All halons were destroyed, except for a few exemptions such as military vehicles, and aircraft. In America, halons are recycled from applications where they have not been released and into extinguishers for private vehicles. So those halons will be released eventually. Thank you, America. While the rest of the world shouldered the problem and cured the Ozone layer - the Hole is getting smaller - you went on using and releasing halons. I'm sorry, Don H.. your advice is useless in the Rest of the World, where we cannot buy or use a Halon extinguisher, by Law. Oh, and "low ozone depletion"? Halon 1301, as used in extinguishers, has an Ozone Depletion Potential SIXTEEN times that of the index substance Carbon Tetrafluoride. See the US Environmental Protection Agency website: http://www.epa.gov/ozone/defns.html#odp "Ozone Depletion Potential" near bottom of page. John My Halotron I extinguisher is based on HCFC-123, not Halon 1301. HCFC-123 has an ODP reported in various sources from 0.012-0.02, roughly one thousand times lower than the chemical you wrongly cite. Get all your facts right before you attack, John. Is it perfect? No -- that's true. HCFC-123 manufacturing is scheduled for phase out by 2030, and is currently legal as a refrigerant in the developed and developing world. Is it much, much better? Yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,2-Dichloro-1,1,1-trifluoroethane http://www.harc.org/images/TechnicalNote1.pdf http://halotron.com/pdf/Tech_Analysis_HI_by_Hughes_Associates.pdf http://www.amerexfireextinguishers.com/Halotron_I_Just_the_Facts.pdf http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/en_US/assets/downloads/h52157_Suva123_push.pdf http://m.state.gov/md83007.htm Edited February 12, 2015 by Don H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I am less keen on this method of disconnecting the battery. I f the battery has recently been on charge, then there may well be Hydrogen, & Oxygen around the top in just the right proportions to explode. The last thing you want is a battery with the top blown off, & acid slashed everywhere. Better to make the disconnection away from the battery, i.e. at the solenoid, or, keep the battery on the floor, & use jump leads to connect to the car. Bob. The solenoid on a sidescreen car is, what, a foot from the battery? Hard to believe there's a significant explosion risk difference. If I'm working on the car, the battery float charger is almost certainly disconnected and the bonnet is open. Your caution is appreciated, Bob, but I think there's enough ventilation to prevent explosive hydrogen concentrations if they were to be created. I'd be more nervous transferring starting amperage through a jury-rigged jumper setup! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TomMull Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Thanks Stuart. Perhaps for some added protection I could use another inline fuse for that initial battery connection. I wont be starting the engine and there are no headlamps or horns for this initial test so I could use a very low amp fuse. That would certainly be better than the scratch test I've used for years. Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Stan. For a first time power up or even any work on vehicle electrics I use a 10AMP MCB {miniature circuit breaker } The type you would use in your house. Fit a metre of cable to each terminal and a crocodile clip to the other ends and you have a very safe and resettable link. Just disconnect the battery earth and clip on the MCB to the earth terminal on the battery and clip the other terminal to a good earth point on the car and then click the MCB into the on position, if you have a fault then it will trip straight away. Steve. I always thought the MCB had to be for 12 v DC rather than domestic 250 v AC What about resettable blade breakers for cars as used on the Merc Sprinter? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Circuit-Breaker-Blade-Fuse-12V-24V-Resettable-5A-30A-Marine-Rally-Automotive/321268071405?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140328180637%26meid%3D2e3cb880287442ed89ff3743f2539dd8%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D10%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D310925687063 Cheers Peter W PS I use a single strand of wire from multi strand car wire between the battery earth terminal and the main earth cable. If that shrivels I know I need to check if something has gone to earth or an extra circuit is on. Edited February 12, 2015 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Thank you, Don H.! HCFC123 is Dichlorotrifluoroethane, which lacks the bromine that is especially ozone damaging, and is relatively short-lived in the environment. So you have good reason to reject my criticism. But I still point out that the rest of world has eschewed halons, in favour of agents that fight fires but not ozone. No point in anyone in Europe even wanting one. JOhn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Thank you, Don H.! HCFC123 is Dichlorotrifluoroethane, which lacks the bromine that is especially ozone damaging, and is relatively short-lived in the environment. So you have good reason to reject my criticism. But I still point out that the rest of world has eschewed halons, in favour of agents that fight fires but not ozone. No point in anyone in Europe even wanting one. JOhn Fair enough, John. Note that the op to whom my comments were directed is a fellow American, disgraceful lot that we may be in the eyes of you and your countrymen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I appreciate all the tips including the caution to have fire extinguishers standing by. There is no fuel in the car so no risk of explosion but lots of potential for wiring to melt/burn although I'm hoping that is a very remote possibility if I follow the excellent tips above and proceed cautiously. My fire extinguishers dedicated to the TR's are Halotron based, it must be ok because it is EPA approved. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Connect the battery with all fuses removed and then fit one by one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
flinty Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Peter W. Without going into the technical switching arrangements of AC versus DC you will find that a 250v AC MCB of 10 amp rating can switch 2.5 KW, when switching 12 v DC it is only switching .12KW i.e. less than 5% of its rated power so you will not have a problem. Steve. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Connect the battery with all fuses removed and then fit one by one. That was my initial plan too until Stuart said: ... The fuses dont necessarily fully protect. But I think I am good with the additional precautions suggested. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Phase 1 of the power up went well. I disconnected the coil, pulled both fuses and made sure the ignition was off. No spark at the battery terminal, nothing registering on my digital multimeter that I have between the battery pos and ground measuring amps. Put the fuses in one at a time, still nothing. Turned on the ignition, got a few ma showing on the multimeter, assumed fuel gauge (fuel tank is empty) and the ignition light which is ON. Pulled the headlight switch, fiddled with the rheostat, got instrument lights. So far all good. Removed the multimeter from the circuit, connected the battery ground terminal. Pulled the wiper motor switch, wiper spindles turned and then stopped. Ammeter on the dashboard pegged at 30A discharge, immediately switched off, and disconnected the battery. Now going to investigate the wiper motor which I rebuilt some time ago, apparently that rebuild did not go as well as I thought. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I remember something similar with my car when I first put it together back in '04 or '05. I vaguely remember that I couldn't find my wiper motor's diagram on the original diagram. Advance Auto Wire's instruction manual is better - they also have the original diagram on their site. Easy to compare. In the end it had to do with the green and green/black wire. And check the earth from the wiper motor and check the earth for the switch as well. Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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