TR4 brake upgrades

[Bob Horner]

Hi all

 

Just completed the RBRR - car ran faultlessly (good to meet you Roger - shame about your limp hat).

 

Thinking of improving the brakes over the winter (not vented 4 pots etc just basic improvements to current set up) so, with that in mind, I would be grateful on current thinking on the following:

 

(1) Slotted and drilled discs - any discernible improvement from these? If not best standard discs - Brembo

 

(2) Braided brake hoses

 

(3) Pad choices and rear shoe choices

 

(4) shiny alfin type rear drums (£255 plus Vat a set from Cambridge Motor sports - seem cheaper than others)

 

(5) overhauling exisiting callipers etc

 

I know I could chat to the specialists but they are always keen to sell you their latest bit of kit!

 

Thanks in advance

 

Bob

[peejay4A]

Search for Hawk pads. They're good. I have them with standard rear shoes.

[Fireman049]

Hi Bob ~

 

I bought my Alfin brake drums from Canley Classics for £131 each including VAT.

 

Tom.

[RogerH]

Hi Bob,

the Hat is in re-sus at present, it's not looking good. Well, it never did look good.

 

Regarding your brake concerns, you will get quite a variety of angles on this.

 

This is my version of reality -

(1) Slotted and drilled discs - any discernible improvement from these? If not best standard discs - Brembo

I have the ECB vented discs and greenstuff pads. I think I'm their only customer. But, my set-up works fine.

(2) Braided brake hoses Yes

(3) Pad choices and rear shoe choices Greenstuff pads, standard rear shoes.

(4) shiny alfin type rear drums (£255 plus Vat a set from Cambridge Motor sports - seem cheaper than others). If you go vented on the front do what you can on the back.

(5) overhauling exisiting callipers etc Inspect the calipers, if they look worn get them replaced. TRShop do good deals on these.

Is your car a 4 or 4A. If a 4A then consider improving the handbrake with back plate lever extensions. Also move the pivot on the handbrake to give greater leverage.

Roger

[TR 2100]

IMO –

Slotted and drilled discs – very little difference

Braided brake hoses – Yes

Pads – keep away from Green Stuff

Alfins – Bling (although I do like mine!)

Overhaul callipers – Yes.

The standard brake setup, working properly,

is quite adequate for normal and spirited use..
Some like a servo.

 

There is one upgrade that IS of benefit – twin master cylinders

with twin line brakes to front and rear. Not so cheap, but when

you consider the standard setup means that the failure of one

brake means you lose the hydraulics to ALL brakes . . . . . . . .

 

AlanR

[TorontoTim]

I'd agree with much of the above - definitely braided hoses and I use the Classic Gold ceramic pads (I have the early, TR3-type calipers, but doubt this is relevant).

 

I road rally my TR4 and, although rallying here in Canada is less hard on the brakes than a serious UK-based event like LeJog or rally of the tests, etc., I find the set up works perfectly well in rallying conditions. Certainly I have no problem locking everything up in extremis...

 

Bleed the system thoroughly to get a nice, hard pedal and I, personally, can't see any reason to get fancy discs or drums, let alone multi-pot calipers.

[Bob Horner]

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Edited October 7, 2014 by Bob Horner

[Bob Horner]

 

Thanks for the comments so far.

 

One issue I had on a wet motorway was the brakes taking a bit of time to react and initially being unbalanced. Would slotted/ drilled disks help in these circumstances?

 

I am slightly dubious as to the advantages of 4 pots and vented disks on the road- especially since I can lock up the wheels with current set up if shove too hard. However, the likes of roger Williams seem to advocate big changes and say drilled/ slotted discs are a no brainer......

[pfenlon]

I would agree with Alan R, vented and or drilled discs do little, on my last TR4 I fitted a pair of MK1 XJ6 callipers and the braking was superb, it was suggested by Peter Cox and I bought the kit from him, you need to change to a TR3

 

calliper casting too but that came with the kit. Although if not going racing ST got the brakes pretty much right originally, just another string to your bow.

[Tr4Tony]

Hi

 

As Alan and Peter say,

 

Slotted and drilled discs – very little difference, but if you go for the cheaper brake discs which warp easily you'll find these last longer

 

Braided brake hoses – Yes, but again avoid cheaply made ones. Goodrich hoses tend not to fail or shred.

 

Pads – keep away from Green Stuff, do go for good quality non asbestos pads. Hawk pads need bedding in and if don't badly glaze regularly. Minted are my favourite for front and rear and have never let me down.

 

Alfins – Bling (although I do like mine!) .... And avoid totally the current 9 and 10 inch alloy versions, which IMHO are downright lethal due to poor manufacture. Old Datsun / Nissan or Brembo with home machining work best. Typecast 10 inch alloy are superb, but £800 a pair.

 

Overhaul callipers – Yes. Exchange original units best in my experience, early TR3 11inch give much more stopping power.

 

The standard brake setup, working properly - is quite adequate for normal and spirited use... agreed, but vented discs and decent alloy callipers do work very well. Bling ones generally don't. All FIA race cars use the standard set up, but with the best bits.

 

Some like a servo. And some don't .... More to go wrong and less pedal feel.

 

There is one upgrade that IS of benefit – twin master cylinders

with twin line brakes to front and rear. Not so cheap, but when

you consider the standard setup means that the failure of one

brake means you lose the hydraulics to ALL brakes . . . . . . . . Absolutely, and 0.75 cylinders mean more less pedal travel but more stopping force.

 

Lastly you need to pay attention to brake fluid when using modern pads. I prefer Castro, SRF as it won't boil. Most Dot 3 or 4 fluids will boil if you get the callipers hot.

 

Regards

 

Tony

[Bob Horner]

Seems dual circuit good upgrade. Who does best kit? Seem to be issues with pedal pressures required if swap to twin cylinders. Any more comments re this? Alfin type drums - what machining is required, where can I get second hand drums, cost and how much would it cost to machine? Alternatively £800 is too much (!) any other recommendations/criticisms for new items?

 

Thanks for responses so far.

 

regards

 

bob

[Geko]

if you're on for a major upgrade on the rear brakes why not going for the Revington disk conversion at 800£ ?

[Rodbr]

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Edited October 8, 2014 by Rodbr

[ianc]

If the bundy tubing is the original steel, then discard it and fit Cunifer (copper, nickel, iron) tubing, which will not corrode in the way that steel can and will do.

Braided brake hoses - definitely!

 

Twin master cylinders: to avoid excessive pedal pressure, the combined surface area of the 2 pistons should be the same as that of the original piston. This means that the each of the new cylinders should have a diameter no greater than 72% of the diameter of the original, single, piston.

 

Ian Cornish