fox889 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Why, I hear you say! After an oil & filter change, the colour of the oil goes black within a few hundred miles (200-300) so my thinking is that I've had the car for 2 years, the previous owner had her for 14 years & there seems no record of the sump been removed. My thinking is, that there could be sludge-crud-whatever laying in the sump possibly a blocked oil pump strainer? While the car is on the hoist & sump off, does anyone recommend changing anything else?.........connecting rod shells.........main bearings? Thoughts much appreciated Nick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Allan Jezzard Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Does the car have an oil cooler fitted? If so, unless you take steps to ensure the pipes and oil radiator are empty, the residue will discolour the new oil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Nick, There is always a small residue of old oil, that will darken the new after an oil change, but an engine that send its oil black after a few hundred miles is continuously contaminating its lubricant. I fear that the time and trouble of taking off the sump and cleaning it will be ill-spent. Have you looked at the blow-by of the piston rings? Take off the oill filler cap when the engine is hot and running. Is there a continuous breeze blowing out of the rocker cover? A zephyr is normal, so this is rather subjective. Have you done a compression check? Again subjective, as there is no 'normal range',but it will show up particular bore/s that are leaking down. Do you have an oil cooler? This is always lower than the sump, is where gunge is more likely to collect and is never emptied at an oil change. Make a point of doing so next time, even disconnecting the cooler and washing it out with degreaser and lots of hot water, followed by compressed air. And if there really are residues in the sump, it would be easier to just flush it out. You can get "flushing oil" that contains excess detergents, but I'd just buy two lots of cheap supermarket oil, that costs the same as some decent stuff, use that for a few hundred miles each and then refill with your chosen oil. Cheapo oil lacks all the additives that allow oil to last for thousands of miles, so you will do your engine no harm by using the cheap stuff for a few hundred. John PS Allan got in first while I was typing! There you go - great minds 'n' all that. J. Edited March 20, 2014 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 If it comes off, fit new thrust washers to bring the crank end float to spec., and shell bearings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Hi Nick, also check the tops of the chassis rails, under the wings, diff supports. what's the paint on the body like............................ All the previous info is good but I feel that you want to remove the sump to satisfy your own mind. If that is the case go for it. The crank end float can be checked before hand - you need a DTI to read the float. The sump will have gunge but it is usually stable so could be left to lie there. It probably will not discolour new oil too much either. What's the oil pressure like? If you take off a BE shell check both halves - the top shell takes most of the hammering. Whereas the Mains have most of the load on the lower shell. if there ar scratches they are part of life and can remain. Visual copper at the cap joints is fairly common (possible distortion from new). Visual copper on the shell pressure faces require replacement. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RonA Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 If the oil pressure and consumption are OK and the engine is running as it should, leave well alone, if it ain't broke etc RonA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 If the oil pressure and consumption are OK and the engine is running as it should, leave well alone, if it ain't broke etc RonA I'm with RonA here, don't go looking for trouble ! if you have an oil cooler then drain it, and or flush the system out with cheap oil. I'm about to do an oil change myself and will be getting the car good and hot, and then draining the ( thermostatic) oil cooler as well as the sump. remember of course to add sufficient oil back, not sure what the capacity of the cooler is but maybe half a liter?? steve ps i recommend Valvoline Racing 20W50, cheap this week from EuroCarParts :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Burgess Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 As above check the end float. With the sump off you can measure it with feeler gauges. just in case you don't have a Dti. Dave B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fox889 Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Thanks to all who have commented, to add: no oil cooler fitted no whirlwind when oil filler cap is taken off compressions were dire when I first had her (110-120) with 2 years use that's now up to 160-180 (with an increase of 5-8psi when oil is put in pot) I have read that compressions will increase with regular use, I take it that's correct? (mind you, 2 different gauges used) oil pressure is not the best in the world, after 20 mile run hot @ 2500rpm 40-50psi & tickover hot is 20-25psi oil filter adaptor fitted with canister type filter Thanks once again for your input. I still fancy taking the sump off purely to cure my curiosity, may even put some shells in. Nick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 You would be better of removing the rocker cover and look at the **** in there Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fox889 Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Sir, there is no '****' in my rocker cover there maybe some crud covering the rockers etc but no '****'! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 There is every chance that the **** is in your rocker shaft Sir Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fox889 Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Very good point actually as the top end does look 'cruddy'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Cairns Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 You will not be happy until the sump is taken off. Sometimes it is woth it just to have a look and put that out your mind. Can you take a picture of the internals of the sump and also looking up into the crank case and advise exactly the oil used . I just changed the sump on our 2007 Suzuki Jeep due to rust, well know on that age and model the previous one new in 1998 did 100,000 miles and 8 years with no problem. First three oil chanes at 9,000 miles Castrol Magnatec 10W/40 semi synthetic, next 5 at about 6,000 miles with Castrol Magnatex 5W/30 fully synthetic and the smup intrnals and crakcase as clean as a whisle. Similar problem with a 1989 Golf GTI from new at 3 years old and a good coating of black stuff say 5 mm thick on that sump. So interested in what it is like. Modern oils are vety good engine cleaners. I would probably leave well alone! eddie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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