Fireman049 Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 I'm rebuilding the engine of my 3A (UFN 878). Should I use cam lube when reassembling the main and big end bearings or should I use oil? Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 Tom, The cam lube should have higher grade lubrication than the engine oil anyway, but guess what...when I rebuild an engine I use engine oil...why ? Because I carry out turning torque measurements on the crank, bearing by bearing and big end by big end checking for any odd jump in the measurements which shows a bent or misaligned component. With engine oil you will have a consistent surface "float" and lubricity whereas as the crank is turned and the bearings "wiped" by the bearing surfaces the cam lube will give a variable reading as the viscosity of the oil changes. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 Thanks Mick. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 Tom there is a lube for engine rebuilds that may hang about for a bit after the rebuild, protecting the surfaces against damp and condensation. When I built my V6 Maserati engine, I was told that "Lubriplate" No 105 motor assembly grease, was the stuff to use. This was recommended by a local TR engine builder in Lancs, This stuff provides instant lubrication on initial starting, before the oil pump has time to supply all the bearings etc etc . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 Thanks for that Pete. I'll certainly look into it. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Tom, I use Lucas assembly lube, as recommended by a local engine builder. As Pete says above, it hangs around a lot longer than oil and doesn't make a mess all over the floor during the rebuild. Cheers Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Just don't lube the bores with it (use engine oil) otherwise there is a greater risk of the rings not bedding in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Will do Andy ~ many thanks for your advice. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlfredHitchcock Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Tom I was given 2 tubes of Castrol Optimol Paste white T recently by a mate. I'll never use 'em both so youre welcome to a tube if you want? He works at a truck garage and reckons the engines/boxes are all assembled with this stuff. Google it and let me know. Just a thought. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Hi Nick ~ Thank you so much for your very kind offer. Unfortunately I ordered a tube of Lubriplate 150 yesterday! But thanks again ~ much appreciated! Best regards ~ Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Use engine oil. Are you ready Vaseline on the guides Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Thanks Neil !! Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stanpartmanpartwolf Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) I've used Lubriplate for over twenty years- it is excellent and is a very useful light grease for allround use, as stated on the tube. Use it for rocker assemblies, gudgeon pins, valve guides ;o}, cam & followers, and so on, AND best of all- fill the whole oil pump with it & give it a couple of twiddles before installation. It stays around indefinitely, unlike Vaseline which always vanishes at times of greatest need... Edited October 23, 2013 by Stanpartmanpartwolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Thanks Stan ~ Great news!! Cheers ~ Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 It stays around indefinitely, unlike Vaseline which always vanishes at times of greatest need... Never use vaseline - weakens latex in minutes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stanpartmanpartwolf Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 You are a very naughty doctor and I think I may have a grumpy prostate. Shall we dance? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 I use copious amounts of oil and Graphogen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Andy ~ You're perfectly right about Vaseline weakening latex. Ask my mate who has 16 unplanned children!!! Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
flatlandsman Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Having built a number of these old motors over the years, all I can say is that everyone is right- except perhaps the vaseline bit- best saved for indoors I think! Could I add yet another suggestion,one that is freely available: Penrite engine assemby lube, available from your local moveable Moss place! Lke everyone says, you need some instant lube immerdiately the engine rotates (yes I know the older you get, the more difficult it is!) Oil just runs out so I figure lube is best. Mick just like to triple check everything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldtuckunder Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 I personally wouldn't use anything too gloopy in the big ends and mains before torquing them up on reground crank and new shells, they were designed to be lubricated with oil not grease. I have also frequently been advised on the small Triumph engines and the 6 (not sure if the 3 4 engine is different) to not use Cam Lube on the sides of new Cam Followers as they can jamb! But yes DO use it on the bottom of the followers. What you really want is oil pumping around all the engine oil ways before you start the engine, and no that doesn't mean cranking it over on the battery!. If you really want to frighten yourself about the potential damage (and also avoid the damage) that can occur starting up a rebuilt engine do the following: (Again I know this works on the small engines and the 6, but have no experience on the 3 or 4) When you have everything rebuilt and are getting towards start up. Pull the distributor out and the drive gear underneath. Find a piece of rod thats the same/slightly smaller diameter than the shaft on the drive gear and about 6-8" long. Now cut the end of the rod the same shape as the end of the drive gear shaft where it fits onto the oil pump. All you need is a hacksaw and a file and 5 mins in a vice, the tolerance isn't important as long as it slots onto the top of the oil pump shaft. OK now find yourself a battery operated electric drill that has reverse. Fill the sump, remove the Oil Filler Cap from the Rocker Cover, drop the rod in so that it engages the oil pump shaft, set the speed on the electric drill to somewhere around 500 rpm in REVERSE (same direction that the rotor arm rotates) 300-600 RPM is fine but 500 equates to 1000 rpm engine speed. Connect the drill to the rod and pull the trigger (if you are going too fast you will get some oil push up out of the distributor pedestal) Now whilst spinning the pump with the drill watch in through the oil filler cap hole until you see oil coming out of the small hole in the rockers. How long did it take before you first saw oil up at the rockers, 30 secs, 1 min, 2 mins! Remember if the drill is going 500 rpm that's how long it would have taken oil to get up there if you had started the engine and run at 1000 rpm. So just because when you bought that lovely new cam the instructions said cover in Cam Lube, Start the engine and run at 2000 rpm for 5 mins, the Cam might be happy but the rest of the engine might have spent 30 secs + at 2000 rpm with empty oil ways! Not nice even if you did lubricate on assembly. Also not a bad thing to do if the car has been laid up and engine not started for a fair while! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stanpartmanpartwolf Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 You've obviously never tried that old "get oil pressure up with a drill" trick, then! On a lobe-type (i.e. TR) oil pump, prepare for a cracked/twisted wrist or the like as the pump primes. Do NOT attempt it. And don't ask how I know... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted November 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Hi oldtuckunder ~ Thank you for that. I shall certainly follow your advice. Regards ~ Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted November 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Hi Stanpartmanpartwolf ~ I'm really confused now with all the differing advice!! Where do I go from here?? Regards ~ Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Hi Tom, Have you forgot what your original question was ? It was what lube to use for the build of the engine, cam, bearings etc, not all the various additional information you've been subjected to. Guess what...these little engines are tough mothers, originally built by men in brown coats using tools that harked back a century. Despite that as long as the original design concepts of engineering are maintained of surfaces being flat and true, bearings and caps being round with bearings fitted correctly, cranks and cams being fitted which spin concentrically and are true and the original method of priming engines followed ie spinning over on the battery to prime the oil galleries all will be well. I've built around 20 of them following the advice I gave, and all have run well and the race engines exceptionally so. It's not a watch ! As Nike says "Just do it" and forget the agonising. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 You've obviously never tried that old "get oil pressure up with a drill" trick, then! On a lobe-type (i.e. TR) oil pump, prepare for a cracked/twisted wrist or the like as the pump primes. Do NOT attempt it. And don't ask how I know... Works for me. Used this trick 5 or 6 times, including on engines that have been stood a long while. Just take it steady (no full throttle on the drill) and keep firm hold and no problem. I usually use STP or Wynns oil additive, neat, when assembling though I have also been known to use Graphogen. Only new, clean engine oil on the rings and bore though. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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