goosey Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hear we go ~ Done the rack bit trying, to sort out the top end. I have been told that a tr4 top column will fit and give me indicators that cancel and lights if required. I saw this at stoneliegh on the tr stand and must admit it looked pretty good however , I do try to keep my cars original ? Can anyone please help me on this ? it must have come up many times before but i,m new to TR-ing If this is correct I would be looking for a tr4 top column if someone could help. regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hi Goosey, I converted my 3A to R&P steering and was able to fit a (1966 model) Mini Cooper four way indicator switch to the original top column and make it self cancelling. I can send you detailed photo's of the conversion if you PM me your email address. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TomMull Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 , I do try to keep my cars original ? From previous discussions of this topic I find a german device, BASTUK L97Btr3, which apparently works with the original traffivator. However the trafficator spins with the wheel; unacceptable, to me at least. The other solutions listed here and elsewhere, while quite effective, are far from "original". The TR3 cockpit and steering wheel are, in my opinion, central to the character of the car. Therefore one must choose between originality and driveability. Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I agree with you Tom and so rebuilt my steering box with new worm, peg, bearings etc, also the idler box and I fitted Delrin bushes. The result is not very light, quite accurate steering that gets rather heavier on hairpin bends and tighter corners. I'm happy with it and still have the original steering wheel, horn button and indicator switch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Brennan Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 How readily available are the steering box parts in the US? Is there a good video tutorial on removing and rebuilding the steering on the net? Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TomMull Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 How readily available are the steering box parts in the US? Is there a good video tutorial on removing and rebuilding the steering on the net? Thanks Most parts are available from usual sources, Moss, LBC, TRF, etc. Here's an info link: http://www.macysgarage.com/myweb6/steering_box.htm Pretty good, I think. Macy's and others will rebuild yours, if you prefer. No video yet, at least that I know of. Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Goosey, you can fit a TR4 upper column to a R & P conversion. The one I fitted to a TR2 using a Mk2 Escort rack had to be extended to allow space for the switch between the dash and the steering wheel. Being of the era, the TR4 switch didn't look out of place. We only wired up the indicators and not the lights or overdrive, which stayed with its original toggle switch. Regards, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peter clarke Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 I have used an Escort rack, Tr4/6 top column with boss adaptor and smaller 14" period looking steering wheel. I took the main light feed from the TR2 switch to the column switch to activate relays for the headlights and made the floor dip switch obsolete. Works fine and looks good for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Hi Bob, most components are available for the steering box, and the Revington upgrade is useful. It's a lot cheaper to ship parts from UK to USA than vice versa. Arguably a rebuilt steering box is a better bet than an r&p conversion - it depends what you want, a classic real TR or a retro hotrod TR4 without the wider track and the windey-windows. A properly set-up sidescreen car is not a problem to drive - the only problem is with the driver, not the car. Yes I appreciate that some folks find the steering unacceptably heavy. If they spent more time digging the garden instead of watching the telly, and spent their holidays getting some exercise rather than lounging on a beach, then they wouldn't have a problem. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TorontoTim Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 A properly set-up sidescreen car is not a problem to drive - the only problem is with the driver, not the car. Yes I appreciate that some folks find the steering unacceptably heavy. If they spent more time digging the garden instead of watching the telly, and spent their holidays getting some exercise rather than lounging on a beach, then they wouldn't have a problem. Blimey, Alec, you're on your soapbax tonight and no mistake... That TR6 driver must have REALLY pissed you off... ;-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I agree with you Alec! A right load of old nancy boys are buying sidescreen cars these days! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Brennan Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Thanks to all who have replied. I am familiar with the Macy's Garage steering box page, but was looking for additional info pertaining to its removal. My 3A is an early one with an adjustable wheel rigid column. Is it necessary to remove the apron to access the box? Is there a step-by-step procedure laid out anywhere? My TC also had a Bishop's Cam steering box, but the PO was persuaded to convert to Datsun. I'm glad he did, however I have no R&P aspirations for the TR. I like John Deere-like steering effort. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
goosey Posted March 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 A big thank you to all who have responded to my request for information regarding the issues surrounding the R&P conversion. I will now have to make my mind up which way I go!! Regards Ron (Goosey) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Brennan Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Hi Bob, most components are available for the steering box, and the Revington upgrade is useful. It's a lot cheaper to ship parts from UK to USA than vice versa. Arguably a rebuilt steering box is a better bet than an r&p conversion - it depends what you want, a classic real TR or a retro hotrod TR4 without the wider track and the windey-windows. A properly set-up sidescreen car is not a problem to drive - the only problem is with the driver, not the car. Yes I appreciate that some folks find the steering unacceptably heavy. If they spent more time digging the garden instead of watching the telly, and spent their holidays getting some exercise rather than lounging on a beach, then they wouldn't have a problem. Cheers, Alec Thanks for the suggestion. I assume this is the upgrade you refer to: http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/product_display.asp?mscssid=cnb5phvgddw78n9se6q29e4dxefmax6f&CarType=TR3&ProductID=RTR3075LK How difficult a job is it? Can this be done through the grille opening (3A), or does the apron need to come off? Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Hi Bob, I bought the Revington modification a few years ago and, as far as I am concerned, it did little difference to the (heavy) steering. I ended up fitting the far superior rack and pinion steering conversion from TR Bitz. Dead easy to fit and well worth it. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Brennan Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Tom, I'm glad it works for you. Like yourself, I'm going to try fixing the original set-up first. If only I can figure out how to remove the steering box. Mark Macy emailed to say it is outlined in the TR3 service manual, but I don't have one. Thanks for your input. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 I've rebuilt my steering and idler boxes and fitted the Delrin bushes and the steering is good, but heavy on hairpins and some roundabouts. IMO it'd be a pity to lose the original steering wheel, horn button and indicator switch. Ash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Brennan Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Managed to find the Standard Triumph Factory Service Manual PDF and headed straight for "Adjustment of Steering Box" (p. 244). It mentions shims as the place to start. My question is would one add or remove shims to correct too much play in the steering wheel? What, exactly, is "float" of the inner column and how does one eliminate it? The second adjustment is the setscrew on the top cover plate. The manual is a little obscure on this adjustment. Any recommendations? Probably it would wise to try the adjustments first, before buying parts and services that may not be necessary, yet. Bob Brennan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) The shims are fitted to the bottom plate to correct longitudinal movement of the column i.e. to take up wear in the bearings above and below the worm. The adjusting screw in the top cover bears down on the Pitman arm were the pin rides in the worm.Any adjustment of this screw needs to be done carefully and checked across the whole arc of movement as the wear occurs at the centre point of the worm and on the hardened pin and over adjustment will result in the steering tightening up part way on each lock. The Revington top plate has a spring loaded adjuster to take up the slack at the centre but give correct adjustment at each end. This is only any good if the worm itself has worn (or become undercut). In practice most of the time the wear has occurred in the pin on the Pitman arm. Replacement of the pin (or even turning it by 90 degrees to utilise the unworn part) will get rid of most of the play encountered. New pins are available and are pretty good quality, easy to press out and replace provided you can remove the drop arm Also the box must be filled up using the grommeted hole in the steering tube just above the box rather than just filling through the level plug as this only gives "Splash lubrication" and causes wear in the top bearing. You can get new balls for the bearings but the repro brass cages arent very good so if yours are starting to break up (which they do if not properly lubricated due to leaks on the bottom seal or around the olive for the stator tube) then its better to try and locate good S/hand ones. Due to a lot of people going to R&P conversions there is now a fair few old steering boxes around so its always worth an ask on here. Stuart. Edited March 19, 2012 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 There's a company called Gee limited on this industrial estate and he specialises in rebuilding these steering boxes for Morgans and TRs. If anyone wants details I'll provide them or just Google. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 And I know a man with a proper tool to remove the drop arm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Brennan Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 And Ashley, on this side, there's Macy's Garage. Stuart - thanks for the additional info. I guess that my question reduces to: To eliminate steering wheel play, where is the best place to start? The factory service manual says: "The FIRST means of adjustment is made by adding to, or taking from, the shim pack located between the front end cover and the steering box. NOTE: The adjustment of the rocker shaft should only be made after ensuring that NO end float exists in the inner column." " The second means of adjustment is by a hardened setscrew and lockout, situated on the top cover plate." I gathered with "FIRST" being capitalized, the manual's place to start was with shims, hence my previous question about adding or subtracting the number of shims. You seem to suggest the most likely culprit is the peg. Would it make sense to order the Revington spring-loaded peg/cover first and proceed from there? I am looking for a starting point. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Presuming the column is still in the car. Get hold of the steering wheel and if it will move forward or back then it needs shims. If the drop arm goes up and down then the top screw needs adjusting, if none of the above and you still have play then its more than likely the pin. However given the age of the units a strip down on the bench, a good clean out ,check for worn components and new oil seals and find where the actual play is coming from is your best bet.The Revington spring loaded top cover wont cure a worn peg as they wear on the sides though it helps in the case of a worn worm as the spring pressure bears down on the arm taking up any variation in the depth of the worm thread. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Brennan Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Bless you Stuart, for giving me a starting point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Brennan Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Armed (and dangerous) with Stuart's contribution, I jacked up TS 24528 and proceeded to shake, rattle and roll every steering component I could find. After finding no fault with the shims or the drop arm, I noticed that the silentbloc bushings seemed to be missing an original component - rubber, and sure enough, that no-rubber slop factor accounted for the steering wheel free play. I should have replaced them when I did the idler arm, but that was such a traumatic experience ("nancy boy"?), I put it off, bitching about a knuckle transplant. So I've read just about everything online about what a bitch of a job replacing these are, and I don't have a press and even if I did, I'd prefer to do from the ground. I've tried my damnedest today to remove that outside sleeve, surrounding the rubber, but no luck. No, I haven't tried heat yet fearing calamity ("nancy boy"?). I wondered if anyone else has resorted to this fallback: http://www.team.net/archive/triumphs/2003-05/msg00864.html Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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