anti roll bars

[nuts and bolts]

hi every one, hope you had a good time at stoneleigh.cold yes but not freezing!I need a new anti roll bar, is a 7/8" bar a good idea ,Its only £15 more than a standard one. would welcome and advice . is less more? or more worthwhile. regards Richard.

[alan atkinson]

It doesn't really answer your question, but I thought that the single best improvement from a handling perspective (after wheels and tires) was to uprate the front bar and add a rear.

[88V8]

It doesn't really answer your question, but I thought that the single best improvement from a handling perspective (after wheels and tires) was to uprate the front bar and add a rear.

 

Did you upgrade the drop links? The standard rubber items are not inspirational.

 

Ivor

[alan atkinson]

The bars came with heim joints and uprated bushings.

You can see them here: http://goodparts.com/shop/index.php?categoryID=11

[TR 2100]

I need a new anti roll bar, is a 7/8" bar a good idea ,

Its only £15 more than a standard one. would welcome and advice .

is less more? or more worthwhile.

 

A 7/8" bar is one helluva chunky item.

Too much for normal (or even enthusaistic)use, I would suggest.

(but I'm not speaking from experience)

 

Some things you want extra stiff, but not

a/roll bars, especially the front.

 

AlanR

[foster461]

A 7/8" bar is one helluva chunky item.

Too much for normal (or even enthusaistic)use, I would suggest.

(but I'm not speaking from experience)

 

Some things you want extra stiff, but not

a/roll bars, especially the front.

 

AlanR

 

 

Alan, I have Richard's 7/8" front and also his adjustable rear sway bar on my TR6. The suspension is rebuilt with all Nylatron, koni/spax shocks and standard length but stiffer springs. The car does not handle funny and I have found it to drive pretty neutral with very little body roll so it stays flat in the corners. Overall pretty happy with this setup.

 

Stan

 

[Jersey Royal]

Alan, I have Richard's 7/8" front and also his adjustable rear sway bar on my TR6. The suspension is rebuilt with all Nylatron, koni/spax shocks and standard length but stiffer springs. The car does not handle funny and I have found it to drive pretty neutral with very little body roll so it stays flat in the corners. Overall pretty happy with this setup.

 

Stan

 

 

I would have to agree. i Have 7/8 Revington in front and there rear adj antiroll bar coupled with

coil over spring joby.I am no Stirling Moss but the car handles very well. Avo shocks polys etc.

Sticks like glue.

 

Cheers

Guy

[alan atkinson]

Alan, I have Richard's 7/8" front and also his adjustable rear sway bar on my TR6. The suspension is rebuilt with all Nylatron, koni/spax shocks and standard length but stiffer springs. The car does not handle funny and I have found it to drive pretty neutral with very little body roll so it stays flat in the corners. Overall pretty happy with this setup.

 

Stan

 

 

I have KYBs on the front and uprated levers in the rear. Shortened, stiffer springs (1" drop), Nylatron all round and "The car does not handle funny and I have found it to drive pretty neutral with very little body roll so it stays flat in the corners. Overall pretty happy with this setup" is about how I'd describe it too.

Edited March 9, 2010 by alan atkinson

[nuts and bolts]

thanks for all your opinions and facts! i intend to go poly bush, touring spec only, and a 7/8" bar . and telescopic dampers on the back. this should be fine. Hope fully!

[88V8]

thanks for all your opinions and facts! i intend to go poly bush, touring spec only, and a 7/8" bar . and telescopic dampers on the back. this should be fine. Hope fully!

 

Choose well your tele dampers. If they bottom out before the springs, either the T/A will break or the rear cross-member.

 

Ivor

 

 

 

 

[stuart]

Ah that will be why yours is in for a bit of welding then Ivor

Stuart

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Richard,

 

I'd be a little cautious of uprating the front arb without adding a rear arb . . . .

 

The IRS chassis has sufficient tendency to flex and rotate in the middle as it is, without overstiffening the front relative to the rear - the net result tends to be an unwanted rear steer input. Not, generally speaking, a desirable characteristic.

 

By all means gently stiffen the whole ensemble first by virtue of polybushing the suspension right through, and as a next stage modestly uprating the springs and shockers back and front - ensuring, as Ivor rightly points out, a correct choice of rear dampers.

 

If that still isn't stiff enough, then uprate the front arb and add a rear arb - but you've now moved on from a touring to a distinctly fast road spec.

 

A 7/8" front arb in itself will give an impression of improved roadholding, until the back end takes over. However, the stop watch tells the story on the track, and the uprated front arb without its rear counterpart will result in slower laptimes and some interesting 'moments'. Add the rear arb and it's a different story - assuming, that is, that you also have the benefit of improved bushing, springs and shockers to match.

 

At the risk of stating the obvious, and apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, uprating arbs comes after upgrading the rest of the suspension set-up, not before.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[88V8]

Ah that will be why yours is in for a bit of welding then Ivor

Stuart

 

Fortunately, just the diff mounts. I still have ye olde levers

 

Ivor

[stuart]

Fortunately, just the diff mounts. I still have ye olde levers

 

Ivor

 

So whose is that one then?

Stuart.

[RobinTR6]

very interesting, I'll stick therefore with standard ARB and poly all round. The rear shock upgrades have already taken out 2 trailing arms so I'll be avoiding anything like that. I must admit that even when the rear shock conversion with everything else was in I cant really calim to have noticed a difference, perhaps I drive too slowly...

[nuts and bolts]

Hello. again .most iteresting photos of knackered rear end of tr, much food for thought thank you for your comments and advice Alec, this bears out what the TRGB boys said at the show, std bar sounds best . might find a s/h one on ebay.who knows. thanks every body regards Richard.

[Tom Fremont]

Don't forget to set the camber for maximum advantage; I found negative front and rear to be the ticket ( by accident, really - the springs had shortened in their very long lives. Roadholding even with stock bushings was hard to fault, and getting equivalent behaviour with all new stuff has been challenging, as you have to start from square one ).

[Steve Knight]

An anti roll bar is simply to help reduce or stop body roll. An arb is a compromise for a road car, soft springs yet controlling roll. The factory fitted them to the front of the TR. The rear does not tend to roll, but other makes / models cars may well benefit with a rear arb. An IRS TR under hard cornering, with the standard bar, will continue to roll at the front but will lift a rear wheel. ( this would put twisting force on the chassis - if it was an issue ) It does not need a rear bar – because the rear does not roll ( as far ) By all means fit an uprated front. It does not make the car much harder as the front springs continue to work normally as before in a straight line. It is only in a corner that the arb comes into play – so make it stiff enough to stop the front rolling ( in relation to the rear ) That’s what leads to good cornering / handling and a faster car. Circuit drivers are concerned if a wheel lifts, a driving wheel would be the worst scenario. But as Mr Pringle says uprated springs should control roll. Maybe “flat-out” springs would, as they have a tighter wound section at the bottom, which instantly becomes coil bound in a corner, automatically uprating the spring.

[nuts and bolts]

An anti roll bar is simply to help reduce or stop body roll. An arb is a compromise for a road car, soft springs yet controlling roll. The factory fitted them to the front of the TR. The rear does not tend to roll, but other makes / models cars may well benefit with a rear arb. An IRS TR under hard cornering, with the standard bar, will continue to roll at the front but will lift a rear wheel. ( this would put twisting force on the chassis - if it was an issue ) It does not need a rear bar – because the rear does not roll ( as far ) By all means fit an uprated front. It does not make the car much harder as the front springs continue to work normally as before in a straight line. It is only in a corner that the arb comes into play – so make it stiff enough to stop the front rolling ( in relation to the rear ) That’s what leads to good cornering / handling and a faster car. Circuit drivers are concerned if a wheel lifts, a driving wheel would be the worst scenario. But as Mr Pringle says uprated springs should control roll. Maybe “flat-out” springs would, as they have a tighter wound section at the bottom, which instantly becomes coil bound in a corner, automatically uprating the spring.

 

[tony r]

Hi Richard

I would support many of the contributors. The 7/8 ARB plus Rear ARB plus Good Bi-Directional Adjustable Shockers plus Polyurethane Bushes makes the TR6 neutral. A great drive on road or track. On the track I have found the back breaks away with warning but progressively.

Few other points I have learnt alloy wheels takes away a lot of body scuttle (reduce axle weight). I would leave in the front lower wishbone inner rubber bushes to reduce impact load on chassis.

Rear telescopics top mount needs to be mounted to the body (min cost) ensuring that the bump stop stops the suspension travel not the shock absorber. Best solution top mount of rear shock absorber bolted solidly to the chassis and body (latest Moss/Revington). Mounting only to the chassis will wreck your chassis!!

Have fun

Tony R

[smizgals]

 

Rear telescopics top mount needs to be mounted to the body (min cost) ensuring that the bump stop stops the suspension travel not the shock absorber. Best solution top mount of rear shock absorber bolted solidly to the chassis and body (latest Moss/Revington). Mounting only to the chassis will wreck your chassis!!

 

 

 

Tony R,

 

Can you please expand on that as I don't quiet see how attaching it to the body changes the travel? Is that not just to do with lengths?

 

The Type 2 listed by Moss is similar to the one I have from CTM. The Type 2A attaches additionally to the body. And Type 3 is a set of brackets. Which one of the latter two are you suggesting? There is quiet a price difference to the Type 2.

 

Stan

[stuart]

Tony R,

 

Can you please expand on that as I don't quiet see how attaching it to the body changes the travel? Is that not just to do with lengths?

 

The Type 2 listed by Moss is similar to the one I have from CTM. The Type 2A attaches additionally to the body. And Type 3 is a set of brackets. Which one of the latter two are you suggesting? There is quiet a price difference to the Type 2.

 

Stan

 

Type 3 are the best as they tie everything together, body and chassis and they allow the use of all types of wheel offset.

Stuart.

[smizgals]

Type 3 are the best as they tie everything together, body and chassis and they allow the use of all types of wheel offset.

Stuart.

 

 

Stuart,

 

Thanks for the images. Where is the third bracket attached?

 

Does 'the bump stop stop the suspension travel not the shock absorber'?

 

Stan

[stuart]

Stuart,

 

Thanks for the images. Where is the third bracket attached?

 

Does 'the bump stop stop the suspension travel not the shock absorber'?

 

Stan

 

You can just see the third bracket attached to the original shock absorber mount on the chassis.It is a very substantial (6mm) three sided flat topped bracket that goes up to the floor with a square rubber insulator between it and the floor. It stiffens the whole of that area up quite considerably. The shock is positioned such that the bump rubber actually works.

Stuart

Edited March 21, 2010 by stuart

[foster461]

You can just see the third bracket attached to the original shock absorber mount on the chassis.It is a very substantial (6mm) three sided flat topped bracket that goes up to the floor with a square rubber insulator between it and the floor. It stiffens the whole of that area up quite considerably. The shock is positioned such that the bump rubber actually works.

Stuart

 

 

Great pictures Stuart. Am I correct that the three pieces are bolted together such that the floor and the inner wing are sandwiched between the pieces but those panels play no role in the design and in fact if you could remove the material from those panels where the pieces mate, it would not affect the operation of the bracket ?

 

Does installation on an assembled car need the gas tank to be removed ?

 

Stan