Body to Chassis Fixing

[HeswallTR3]

Hi,

 

I am about to rejoin the tub to the chassis, and then get on with the seemingly painful task of fixing and prepping the panels, has anyone got any tips on getting the 2 back together other than the usual expletives that will not doubt resound around the Wirral

 

Keith

[Don Elliott]

You can see how we did mine in 1989 on New Years eve. We were four ordinary guys and we lifted it onto the frame. Look at the third to last photo. Since I had used the frame to build up and weld the "tub" all together and to pre-set the door gaps, etc., I had already determined how many rubber body pads I needed and how many in each location between the body and the chassis.

 

http://www.rucompatible.com/triumphmtl/member_cars.htm#TR3

[littlejim]

I did mine solo with a block and tackle. Stuck the rubbers from the Moss kit on to the chassis with black gasket silicone, and started with one Al spacer in each place that the book showed them going.

Lined up holes, when it was getting close, with centre punches, bolts, whatever.

Only fly in the ointment was the speedo extension on the O/D gearbox which wasn't there before. had to unscrew it, then put it back on after the tub went on.

You have to get the tub up pretty high if the engine is already in place.

Some extra pairs of hands will obviously make life a lot easier.

Edited May 16, 2009 by littlejim

[bob-menhennett]

Keith

 

Make sure you have completed ALL the things on the " to do list " whilst the chassis is off !! It will never be as easy, once it is back on.Check all the bolts, brake lines, fuel line, dampers, propshaft, greasing etc., etc.

 

Stick on all the rubber strips, leaving the bolts holes clear.Run a tap through all the body mounting bolt holes to make sure the threads are clean.That way the bolts will slip in.A blob of grease and/ or Coppa ease ( sorry can never remember how to spell it ) will protect the bolts against the ravages of time.

 

TR4 owner but does the " 3 " have a body bump stop above the "diff ".Clean threads and fix before re-assembly.

 

Good luck with it.

 

Bob

[pfenlon]

Put my body on using an engine "crane", it was a tight job, very tight, lots of swearing sadly, but 4 hours saw it fixed.

[Menno van Rij]

We used a 2-post lift, but I think you haven't one at hand. When you put long thin wooden sticks in the bolt holes, you can let them act as guidance pins: lowering the body will put the long thin wood stick through the appropriate holes of the body, thus guiding the correct placing. If you fale attempting, the wood sticks will simply brake, without damaming paint ect.

 

Menno

[D1092]

We used a 2-post lift, but I think you haven't one at hand. When you put long thin wooden sticks in the bolt holes, you can let them act as guidance pins: lowering the body will put the long thin wood stick through the appropriate holes of the body, thus guiding the correct placing. If you fale attempting, the wood sticks will simply brake, without damaming paint ect.

 

Menno

 

Menno, that is BRILLIANT! Thank you for the excellent tip. Like all great ideas, it's so obvious once it's described. Thanks again.

 

Regards,

Vittorio

[BrianC]

TR4 owner but does the " 3 " have a body bump stop above the "diff ".

All sidescreen cars use a pair of the same bumpstops as the TR4.

Item 30 on this Moss Link

[ianc]

I think that the "bumpstop above the diff" is the item which doesn't seem to feature in any picture or numerical list in the Parts Manuals, but is 136758 Pinion Housing Buffer on the TR4. This item bolts to the underside of the bodywork right in the centre, directly above the diff. The people at Moss should be able to say whether this has the same Part Number for the TR2/3/3A, but I cannot imagine it can be different, even though it is not listed in that Parts Manual either.

Ian Cornish

[Ian Vincent]

My TR3a didn't have a bump stop above the diff or even any fixing holes for one. It has a raised 'Dent' in the floor above the diff presumably to provide it with clearance.

 

I can't see what a bump stop above the diff would achieve because with a rigid rear axle the axle tubes will hit the bump stops on the chassis first and that will stop it going any further.

 

Rgds Ian

[stuart]

There is no bumpstop above the diff on 2/3/3a they relied on the hoop straps bolted to the chassis either side to stop upward movement.

Stuart.

[ianc]

Having looked at the drawing of 136758 in the Moss on-line catalogue, I have discovered it is for the TR4A with solid axle and I don't know where it is mounted, so I suspect that I'm incorrect in quoting that number for any other model! Apologies.

 

I agree that the hoops on each side of the chassis and the bump rubbers on the axle are supposed to prevent the axle hitting the bodywork. However, my car has an additional rubber bump stop mounted on the underside of the bodywork directly above the diff - from memory (I'm not dressed for crawling beneath the beast at the moment!), it is rectangular. Was this an addition made by the Works to prevent the rally cars bottoming under the most extreme conditions? - and, if you have seen pictures of the roads in Yugoslavia and Canada, and the special sections of the RAC in 1962-1964, you'll know what I mean by extreme!

Perhaps those with standard TR4s can tell us whether their cars have such a stop?

 

Ian Cornish

[bob-menhennett]

My 4 has one, which is secured by two nuts and shakeproof washers to captive bolts on the body underside.Hence easier to fit to body before bolting the body down to the chassis.

There was no obvious wear when I was restoring the car but I haven't examined it since an " airborne moment", descending the mountain on the Snow road ( only open for three months of the year ) in Norway last June with the Thames Valley Group Tour. After the launch / take off point, a deep ice gouged rut across the road, we did re-establish contact with the road with a bit of a bang !!

 

Bob

[ianc]

DIFFERENTIAL NOSE BUMP STOP ON TR4s

Bob has confirmed that this Stop was fitted to the TR4s and has described it accurately - but I wonder if it was to all of them i.e. were the very earliest TR4s so equipped?

 

This Bump Stop is additional to the hoops which sit over the axle on each side, and which should arrest the axle’s movement in an upward direction. This extra Bump Stop is mounted on the underside of the floor just beyond the end of the prop shaft tunnel and, in extremis, the nose of the differential housing would meet this Stop. The Stop is made of steel in a rhomboid shape (wider at its top, where it bolts to the floor, than at the business end, where it would be hit) and there is a rectangular piece of hard material between it and the underside of the floor. The clearance above the nose of the differential housing suggests that this Stop would only come into effect if one or both of the hoops were to have been ripped off the mountings to the chassis, permitting the axle to rise beyond its normal operating limit.

 

I am reminded that in the 1962 Liège-Sofia- Liège Rally, the front mounting of 5VC’s left rear spring (i.e. the pin which passes horizontally through the chassis) was driven upwards, through the top of the chassis and then through the floor, getting perilously close to poor John Gretener’s backside! Perhaps this is the reason for the existence of this Bump Stop. The lesson was learnt and the already modified chassis of the Works TR4 Rally cars were even further reinforced both at these pin mountings and other points.

 

The really odd thing is that I have been unable to find anything in the Parts Manual does anyone know its Part Number?

 

Ian Cornish

[TorontoTim]

DIFFERENTIAL NOSE BUMP STOP ON TR4s

Bob has confirmed that this Stop was fitted to the TR4s and has described it accurately - but I wonder if it was to all of them i.e. were the very earliest TR4s so equipped?

 

 

The really odd thing is that I have been unable to find anything in the Parts Manual does anyone know its Part Number?

 

Ian Cornish

 

My TR4 dating from October 1961 has one of these fitted - just as you describe it - although whether it was "retro" fitted after the works rally cars, I don't know.

 

Over the winter, in an idle moment of curiosity (Toronto is WAY too cold for any work to take place in the garage) I asked about it and Stuart pointed me towards the part you mentioned - 136758. This appears to be described correctly as "BUFFER, pinion housing" although it's only listed for TR4A with beam axle and it is the wrong shape in the drawing - at least, the one I have isn't that shape. However, maybe this is all that is available now.

 

I haven't seen any other reference to it in parts catalogues or drawings in TR manuals

Edited May 19, 2009 by TorontoTim

[stuart]

My TR4 dating from October 1961 has one of these fitted - just as you describe it - although whether it was "retro" fitted after the works rally cars, I don't know.

 

Over the winter, in an idle moment of curiosity (Toronto is WAY too cold for any work to take place in the garage) I asked about it and Stuart pointed me towards the part you mentioned - 136758. This appears to be described correctly as "BUFFER, pinion housing" although it's only listed for TR4A with beam axle and it is the wrong shape in the drawing - at least, the one I have isn't that shape. However, maybe this is all that is available now.

 

I haven't seen any other reference to it in parts catalogues or drawings in TR manuals

As far as I know thats the same one for 4 and solid axle 4a as the latter has a large hoop over the rear of the chassis above the "T" shirt section (instead of an upper "T" shirt as per IRS chassis) and the bump rubber is mounted on this hoop.

Stuart.

[Rhodri]

From my '62 TR4

[Guest colinTR2]

Lots of excellent technical suggestions.

BUT most important, 3 mates and lots of beer!!

hope it goes well

Colin

[HeswallTR3]

Wow that started some interesting discussions, 3 blokes and much beer I think will be the strategy

 

Thanks to everyone

 

Keith

[ianc]

Rhodri's photo shows the item fitted to the TR4, which differs markedly from that fitted to the solid axle TR4A (Stuart's photo).

 

Like many old folk, I have to venture to the loo in the middle of the night (don’t laugh, you’ll be old one day!) and last night I thought a little more about the great distance between this extra Bump Stop and the nose of the diff., compared with the distance between axle and the restraining hoops.

 

It seems to me that the only way that extra Stop could come into operation would be if the axle were to twist under extreme torque, so that the nose of the diff lifted. Looking onto the righthand rear wheel when doing a racing start, the wheel will turn clockwise, so torque reaction will try to turn the axle anti-clockwise and try to distort the rear springs into an S shape. Under such conditions, the back of the car will sink (weight transfer) and nose of the diff will rise, so it is just possible that, with this combination and a bump in the road, this extra Bump Stop might then come into operation. However, I don't think it is very likely and I am puzzled by the fact that this part appeared only on the TR4. Whilst the TR4 is heavier than the TR3A, the difference is not great, so what was the thinking - I guess we'll never know!

 

Pete Cox tells me that on his very much lowered race car (he emphasised the VERY!), he had to remove this extra Stop.

 

Ian Cornish (it's being a pedant/anorak that keeps me going .... )