Richardtr3a Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I have started having poor connections for the lights and indicators in the front of the engine bay beside the horns. If you try to open up the connections the ends keep falling off and I need to dismantle all of them because in spite of low mileage the connectors have started to rust . Therfore I will soon be stripping out all the sleeves and replacing them. I need advice on the best method of attaching the terminals so that they do not break off. At present the only ones working well and long term are the crimped bullets. I feel that I should buy a crimping tool next sunday and replace the mixture of fittings that I now have. Solder seems to damage the cable. What is best? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Soffe Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I have started having poor connections for the lights and indicators in the front of the engine bay beside the horns. If you try to open up the connections the ends keep falling off and I need to dismantle all of them because in spite of low mileage the connectors have started to rust . Therfore I will soon be stripping out all the sleeves and replacing them. I need advice on the best method of attaching the terminals so that they do not break off. At present the only ones working well and long term are the crimped bullets. I feel that I should buy a crimping tool next sunday and replace the mixture of fittings that I now have. Solder seems to damage the cable. What is best? Dear Richard I am about to change my wiring loom - mainly because after 50 years it needs it! I bought a pack of 25 new bullets from my local motor factor - Bedford Battery - for £2.33 so that I will have all new ones on the n/w/loom. The bullets are easier to fit than trying to solder near the carbs! Best regards John Soffe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel Lay Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 (edited) Richard & John I think to a degree each to their own. Crimp bullets are a darned site better than they were some years ago, I have always gone down the line of brass bullets and solder but 'hands on' electronics was my life for over 40 years so soldering is second nature. Please though if you crimp get a decent crimp tool that you can use on bullets. I also love the adhesive heat shrink sleeving for car electrics, not the cheap thin heat shrink. Nigel (with TS952) An update from me as well - 100% agree with Tony, if you can get a hex crimping tool go for it, funny that Tony, why is it always the best tools that go 'walkabouts'. Edited March 2, 2009 by Nigel Lay Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tthomson Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 (edited) Hi Richard, I have found that crimping bullets is fine for most situations, but cheap crimping tools do not do the job properly. A decent hex crimp tool is fairly expensive and I no longer own one, (it went walkabout a few years ago), so I tend to solder bullets. This works fine, but as you rightly note it can put extra strain on cables causing them to break over time. However, if your cable is properly located and tied in place with cable ties or lacing etc. this is not a problem. The damage is caused by vibration and other cyclic stressing. I hope this helps. update - my comments mirror what Nigel has added. Tony Thomson I have started having poor connections for the lights and indicators in the front of the engine bay beside the horns. If you try to open up the connections the ends keep falling off and I need to dismantle all of them because in spite of low mileage the connectors have started to rust . Therfore I will soon be stripping out all the sleeves and replacing them. I need advice on the best method of attaching the terminals so that they do not break off. At present the only ones working well and long term are the crimped bullets. I feel that I should buy a crimping tool next sunday and replace the mixture of fittings that I now have. Solder seems to damage the cable. What is best? Edited March 2, 2009 by tthomson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 A tip to keep moisture/corrosion out, and the connection in place . . . a hot glue gun ! Hot melt glue works very well at insulating the joint, and preventing connectors from vibrating off. Not my bright idea, thank TR Yoof. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 A tip to keep moisture/corrosion out, and the connection in place . . . a hot glue gun ! Hot melt glue works very well at insulating the joint, and preventing connectors from vibrating off. Not my bright idea, thank TR Yoof. Cheers, Alec Also good for repairing a crack in the plastic window on a soft top Regards Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Bullets basically are JUNK, a far far better connector is a spade type lucar connector. I bought new bullets etc and found the tubes they pushed into opened up after not too long, unless you are into originality and intermittent electrics. Cut them out and go for lucar spades. Its really easy to make a new loom yourself, and also cheap, but originallity has gone replaced only by reliable "sparks" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted March 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I have been offered a crimping tool for £26.00 which should be a quality item and I can collect at Stoneleigh. I need a serious reason for travelling so far. What do you think? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Hi Richard, there are any number of tool suppliers on the 'net - you just need a hex crimping tool specifically for bullets of the size that you are using. That's got to be a cheaper option than driving to Stoneleigh. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TIMS Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Richard Have a look down the page at http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-...oninscrimps.php The hexagonal bullet crimper TT85 they sell works with 3 different sized (internal size) bullets for different cable sizes. I tested it by crimping on a cable and hanging a heavy weight from the bullet, no movement. Usual disclaimer. Regards Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tthomson Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 An update from me as well - 100% agree with Tony, if you can get a hex crimping tool go for it, funny that Tony, why is it always the best tools that go 'walkabouts'. I think the 'Tool fairy' takes them. (He'll have to extract them from his a*se if I catch him!) TT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Although crimped bullets may ensure a good connection (as long as the crimping is undertaken properly), the result is a lot bulkier because the plastic sleeves (often red and somewhat unsightly) on the bullets then protrude from the housing (the black rubber sheath). A soldered bullet just disppears inside the housing. That said, a soldered joint is more liable to crack if the wire is flexed too much &/or too often, so it is important to ensure that flexing will not occur, if necessary, by securing the wires. A hint for ensuring that the soldered joint is "good" (i.e. not dry): tin the end of the wire AND the inside of the bullet first. Tinning is the process of getting a coating of solder onto the pieces of metal which will form the joint - the tinning is aided by the flux, which will be in the solder wire if you use multicore solder, or you can use flux paste, as plumbers would do. You can tin the bullet by gripping its back end (the end through which the wire will enter) with snipe-nosed pliers and then heating the business end on the soldering iron and putting solder down the inside of the bullet so that it coats the inside of the business end, then, with the bullet still sitting on the iron, push the tinned end of the wire into the bullet and wait for the solder on the wire to melt. Remove from the iron and blow on the bullet so as to set the joint (don't stick it into water - that will tend to produce a weak joint). If there's a lot of flux on the wire or bullet, remove it whilst still warm, as it will continue to do its job if left there! Good plumbers use a wet rag to remove excess flux from soldered joints whilst they are still warm - it prevents the horrible discolouration which is sometimes seen at these joints. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TIMS Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Ian Sorry I appear to have created confusion. The bullets that the hex' crimper works with are these http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-...ninsbullets.php Which are the same ones whether soldered or crimped. They are 4.7mm which is probably something sensible in imperial. The ones with the red/blue shoulders are either 4mm or 5mm and really are not suitable for using with the 4.7mm black snap connectors that we are used to putting the 4.7mm bullets into. Regards Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Are these any good ? http://www.nfauto.co.uk/crimping_tool.htm Regards Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 If you are going to solder, then make sure you use old-fashioned rosin core solder, and not the newer acid core variety, nor yet an acid flux. The acid content seems to lead to long-term corrosion and electrical resistance. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) Further to Ian's excellent description of how to solder (desperately need by me at least), can anyone tell me what Wattage (no pun intended ) soldering iron is best for this job. I have in the past tried something resembling Ian's method but I only have a 15W soldering iron (probably too low) and a soldering gun (probably too high). I'm currently thinking about getting a variable output solder station on special half-price offer of £15 at Maplins. I think this goes from 0 to 40W and has replaceable tips. Any good (although the operator will still be useless )? Edited March 3, 2009 by BrianC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Thanks for all the help. I am only interested in the bullets which are on my loom at present. These disappear into the sleeve and do not break off or corrode and give me no problems. The new wires which I have added for the lights and into the connectors at the front have different bullets and none long lasting. The sleeves are rusting up, after 20 years, and my electrical friend says only use Ripaults sleeves which are a better quality sprung metal.This is my next search. I have tried soldering as suggested and always damage the insulation. I am safer on copper pipe. I also overcame the leaking petrol tap by soldering it in the open position.(off the car). But I am no good on the bullets. Thanks very much for the opinions. Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 All modern cars use 'multiway' connectors, Lucar type male and female spade connections enclosed in a two-part plastic case. The case parts will only join in one way so the right connections are always remade. I've replaced all the connectors on my car with these, and added them where an electrical item is plugged into the loom. Such a multiway, on the enmd of a short wiring leash, makes dis- and re-connection so much easier, especially for dashboard instruments. No more grovelling under the dash, in the dark and with unknown bits of car sticking into your back, trying to loacte the right terminal on the back of an instrument! Vehicle Wiring Products sell them in packs of a range of sizes, c/w a crimping tool: http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-...iconnectors.php John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hi Richard, these are what you're after http://www.ripca.com/catalogus.php?toon=pr...amp;template=-1 Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tthomson Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hi Brian, You can use anything from 25Watt to 50 Watt without too much trouble, but the bigger the wattage the faster it heats the bullets and the quicker you need to work. TT Further to Ian's excellent description of how to solder (desperately need by me at least), can anyone tell me what Wattage (no pun intended ) soldering iron is best for this job. I have in the past tried something resembling Ian's method but I only have a 15W soldering iron (probably too low) and a soldering gun (probably too high). I'm currently thinking about getting a variable output solder station on special half-price offer of £15 at Maplins. I think this goes from 0 to 40W and has replaceable tips. Any good (although the operator will still be useless )? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 In my description of soldering, I was talking of the "old-fashioned" bullets, as depicted in the Ripca catalogue link posted by Alec on 3rd March. These are the type which, as RichardTR3A says, disappear completely inside the sleeve when connected. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tthomson Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hi Alec, The bullets look good, but the crimping tool they show is a cheap two point crimp and in my experience it is far too easy to snip right through the bullets when using these, but thanks for the link. TT Hi Richard, these are what you're after http://www.ripca.com/catalogus.php?toon=pr...amp;template=-1 Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tthomson Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hi Neil, The crimping tool shown in your link is fine for Lucar spade connectors, but not bullets. TT Are these any good ? http://www.nfauto.co.uk/crimping_tool.htm Regards Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hi Tony, sorry to confuse life - I happened to have a link to the ripault bullets on file, I didn't give a thought to what else might be on that page. Agreed about the crimping tool shown on the page - not the thing for bullets for sure, although it's adequate for spades etc. You get what you pay for, but I'm not convinced it's the best vfm that I've seen on offer. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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