3A starter motor replacement

[Phil Read]

I have a 57 3A with a lazy starter. not sure which type it is. Do the high torque starter motors fit any model and if so what sort of a job is it changing over?

[Lebro]

Need to make sure the gear has the correct No. of teeth. 9 for the early flywheels (with a shrink on ring gear) or 10 for the later bolt on gear.

It's easier if you have the standard exhaust manifold, getting a spanner on the nut / bolt on the gearbox side can be challenging.

Have you checked the cable connections to the motor, & the earthing braid. may be worth doing a voltage check of:

1) the battery direct, when cranking (coil disconnected so it doesn't start)

2) on the starter motor direct (terminal & case)

if a large difference between the two, then the wiring is the problem not the motor.

Bob

Edited April 11 by Lebro

[james christie]

If you do go for a new high torque starter motor, turn the adapter plate through 180°. The fixed stud, which most of the manufacturers insist on fitting, will then be at the bottom and life will become easier.

I have never understood why they put it at the top where it is virtually impossible to fit, let alone turn the nut. I must suppose that none of the suppliers have ever tried to fit one of these excellent mods to a sidescreen car

Rant over!!

james

[TR Rob]

I have just done this job , replacing a Powerlite unit.

I undid carbs. and lifted them out of the way, fortunately there is enough play in the linkage.

Jacked car up and removed the bottom bolt, relatively easy. The top bolt on the fixed stud was impossible to remove from engine bay.

I tried every combination of spanner socket or whatever and could not get onto the nut let alone turn it. After several days of trying and seeking help from colleagues on this site , I came to the conclusion the only way to remove the top nut is by drilling a hole in the transmission tunnel . This I did and with a socket and extension it was off in no time.

Then had to undo manifold to exhaust to gain enough clearance to get old starter motor through the gap between chassis and exhaust pipe.

Powerlite tested my old motor it was u/s and supplied a like for like at a discount with a three year warranty.

Unlike suggestions on here it did not have the movable adaptor and from experience I would not mount it with the stud at the bottom as this would mean you have a loose lot and nut to contend with in the transmission tunnel gap.

With my new hole in the transmission tunnel I got the new motor in place , basically hanging on the top stud put the nut and bolt in the bottom mounting tightened it up a bit and then with top nut in socket extension screwed it onto the stud…. relatively easy job. Then went round and tightened everything up. 

Finally got some rubber bungs and put one into my ‘new’ service hole and replaced insulation and carpets, exhaust tightened up and carbs. replaced……job done !

 

[RogerH]

Hi Rob

cutting a hole in the tunnel is the easiest solution.  The bung in the floor is a good size to go for.

 

Roger

[TR Rob]

38 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Rob

cutting a hole in the tunnel is the easiest solution.  The bung in the floor is a good size to go for.

 

Roger

From memory the hole I cut was 45 mm diameter. It has to be pretty well lined up with top nut on starter motor as this nut is recessed in gearbox bell housing which means if the socket/extension is angled slightly it potentially can slip on nut head and the last thing you want is to round this nut off !!

[stuart]

When the hitorque starters first came out I fitted one to a 6 and the owner flatly refused to let me take the g/box cover off as it had a really nice cream interior so I managed to get the top nut on using a couple of long 1/4" drive extensions and a wobbly socket going over the side of the gear box from behind! It was a real fiddle but I managed it in the end. I would not do it like that again!

Stuart.

[Lebro]

I must be lucky, I can get a spanner on it (in the standard upper position) from the engine side.

But I do have a T2000 gearbox, which has pushed the engine forward a bit.

  Click on to enlarge image

Bob

[stuart]

1 minute ago, Lebro said:

I must be lucky, I can get a spanner on it (in the standard upper position) from the engine side.

But I do have a T2000 gearbox, which has pushed the engine forward a bit.

  Click on to enlarge image

Bob

Loads of room!

Stuart.

[james christie]

Maybe we should all fit T2000 boxes

I don’t understand why folks prefer to butcher their gearbox covers rather than use a simple mechanical solution of turning the adapter plate through 180°
 

james

[TR Rob]

Because trying to get a nut AND bolt through the top mounting and then having to use a spanner on both ends to tighten it , is impossible.

Personally I don’t see a well finished access hole as ‘butchering’. It is just an excellent way of overcoming a problem. 

[james christie]

My experience allows me to disagree - if you turn the adapter plate through 180°!
The nut and bolt become as accessible as on the original starter.
How is it that you can’t get a spanner on both ends ?

james

[RobH]

23 minutes ago, james christie said:

The nut and bolt become as accessible as on the original starter.
How is it that you can’t get a spanner on both ends ?

There are differences in the gearbox flanges.   Mine -like Bob's- is an ex saloon box and the nut sits on top of a boss, so if the flange is sufficiently forward it is easily accessible with a thin spanner.  Others I have seen are in a pocket between two mouldings and are virtually inaccessible with a normal spanner. Even if you can get it located on the head, there is no clearance to actually move it sideways to undo the nut.  Only a socket spanner will fit and there isn't space to get one between the flange and the bulkhead.

 

 

 

Edited April 12 by RobH

[james christie]

Ah! Ah! I’m talking about a normally constituted TR3A. 
 

james

[TR Rob]

Yes, my gearbox is all synchro TR4a, so I am led to believe !!

[Dic Doretti]

My solution, captive nuts with allen headed bolts accessed from the engine bay. No need to touch the interior.

Cheers 

Richard

[RobH]

Fine for an original starter Richard but not for a 'high torque' one with the fixed stud. 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

We’ve done this.

This is the tool set up I use from the engine bay side with a ring type crows foot spanner.  Fitting the nut is the most difficult part of the job.

 

 

[TR Rob]

Great idea, but wouldn’t work on my set up, not enough clearance between nut and gearbox casing to fit that size of socket, plus it was impossible to turn as socket with extension is too bulky.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

  The socket is thin wall 3/8” drive the knuckle bar is 1/4” sq. drive.   Gorrila drive (1/2” ) only ever used on suspension and heavy stuff.

[Phil Read]

Thanks for the info guys. I had to tsake both manifolds off as it has a sports exhaust. Working on mty back I managed to get the starter off, the top bolt was a bit tricky but and slow but I managed. The problem with the old starter  is that the split pin has dissapeared from the end and the large spring is missing, I assume its dropped into the bell housing. although the engine turns freely I suspect its and engine out job to retieve it. meanwhile I will look for a second hand starter motor. I intend to give the engine an overhaul late summer but the boss wants to go to the "heartbeat" rally in it  at the end of June as the car was in several episodes.

[stuart]

31 minutes ago, Phil Read said:

Thanks for the info guys. I had to tsake both manifolds off as it has a sports exhaust. Working on mty back I managed to get the starter off, the top bolt was a bit tricky but and slow but I managed. The problem with the old starter  is that the split pin has dissapeared from the end and the large spring is missing, I assume its dropped into the bell housing. although the engine turns freely I suspect its and engine out job to retieve it. meanwhile I will look for a second hand starter motor. I intend to give the engine an overhaul late summer but the boss wants to go to the "heartbeat" rally in it  at the end of June as the car was in several episodes.

Take the cover plate off the front of the box underneath and see if you can see anything under the flywheel.

Stuart.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Magnet on a bit of string through the starter motor hole might recover the lost bits.

 

So your starter looks a bit like this one the later exposed bendix type.

 

 

Edited April 13 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[Phil Read]

Yep that's the one.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

On 4/14/2024 at 2:33 PM, Phil Read said:

Yep that's the one.

Am I digging in the garage for one for you or are you sorted?

STARTER NOW SOLD.

Update..

  I have a starter motor.   It is a new/rebuilt Lucas 2M100 type motor rather than the M418G type.   This is only relevant if you are buying internal bits for it.   This type is used on more recent Land Rover vehicles, so is quite sturdy.
 It has fitted a used TR3A/4 10 tooth bendix gear.  It runs perfectly off load, but probably needs the end plate taking off and a drop of oil in the bearings, as it has sat on my shelf for ten odd years.

Yours outright for £45. 00 plus whatever the postage is.

PM me if interested and I will send you details.

Edited April 16 by BlueTR3A-5EKT