Sump Bolts tightening sequence

[phil Dean]

I just wondered when I have finished cleaning (horrible Job) the sump with new gasket and some fancy sealant advised by TRGB and checked the sump flange all prior to putting it back 

Is there a tightening sequence you know like doing head bolts so you spread the sump evenly as you tighten it up. 

Phil.

[Lebro]

No specific sequence, but go round them all doing a bit at a time on each.

Bob 

[Malbaby]

I fitted good sized washers under the bolt heads.

[phil Dean]

yes I did think about that if you look on the Moss website it shows them with both spring washers and washers but there is not a lot of room and TRGB said you should just use spring washers. The same page on the website shows 2 of the longer bolts when only one is required. When I look at the bolts taken out at least 5 have turned over threads so new bolts new spring washers and run a tap up the threads prior to fitting.

Phil.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

1 hour ago, phil Dean said:

yes I did think about that if you look on the Moss website it shows them with both spring washers and washers but there is not a lot of room and TRGB said you should just use spring washers. The same page on the website shows 2 of the longer bolts when only one is required. When I look at the bolts taken out at least 5 have turned over threads so new bolts new spring washers and run a tap up the threads prior to fitting.

Phil.

You will need two longer bolts.
If you have a crank case snorkel vent pipe as well as the clutch slave stay rod to attach.

 

Edited April 6 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[phil Dean]

Don't think so but will check tomorrow just spent a lovely 3 hours cleaning the sump, tomorrow its out with the straight edge to check how many bolts holes have pulled up and deformed the sump flange a quick look and its most of them. 

 

Phil.

[phil Dean]

Peter I have had a look and I cannot find this crank case snorkel pipe unless its the pipe which is at the very back of the block in the centre I have tried and there doesn't seam to be any movement with the sump off on this pipe.

Phil.

[james christie]

If I remember rightly it's an ´interference fit' but with something (string, tape etc) wrapped around it to make it leak proof. Usually not very tight. There is no pressure behind it  of course.

It may have been glued in by a PO.

T'any rate, try a bit of wiggling back and forth to break the seal.

It can be a tight fit with the engine in situ.

james

 

[Charlie D]

I’d be surprised if any glue would stick well to the block in order to keep the pipe in. It would be almost impossible to get the block 100% oil free to make it work.

Because the pipe is quite long you can get quite a bit of leverage in a circular movement and with slight pulling outwards from the block.

 

Don’t give up. It WILL come out.

That's why the thing is bolted to the sump.

[james christie]

13 minutes ago, Charlie D said:

That's why the thing is bolted to the sump.

Ah yes, I forgot that bit, so it must come out easily

james

[Motorsport Mickey]

Gentle tap on the pipe at 90 deg to the hole either  way gets it wriggling and loosens it.

Mick Richards

[phil Dean]

now I am totally confused as to the location of the snorkel. According to the moss diagram I have a closed circuit breather. According to the Moss description it uses 17 set screws for the sump a longer bolt. which it says is breather pipe to sump & slave cylinder stay and 1 more set screw for the front sealing block. 

Please see picture below the red circle I think is just the oil pick up for the rear bearing block. but I have identified a large hole at the back of the block on the left hand side looking from the top marked in yellow  which goes into a chamber there is not a corresponding hole on the other side of the block should this be were it fits into. If not can somebody give me a clue whereabouts on the block it is supposed to be.

Phil

 

[phil Dean]

Having re read some of the earlier replies have I got this wrong should it be external of the block and sump because the only thing connected to the sump at that point was was the clutch slave cylinder stay.

 

Phil.

[james christie]

I thought you were asking about item 40!!

james
 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

4 hours ago, phil Dean said:

Peter I have had a look and I cannot find this crank case snorkel pipe unless its the pipe which is at the very back of the block in the centre I have tried and there doesn't seam to be any movement with the sump off on this pipe.

Phil.

You have probably got a closed circuit breather as it is a 4A, so there is no external snorkel pipe.   The internal central tube on the rear main bearing cap is oil drain back to the sump    Don’t mess with it.

Tge snorkel, if fitted goes in the hole circled.   Poke your finger in that hole.   If it meets a dead end about half an inch in your breather hole is plugged for closed circuit breathing and the snorkel is not fitted.

 

The internal central tube on the rear main bearing cap is oil drain back to the sump from the scroll seal.    Don’t mess with it or block it.     And yes there is an extra hole to the side of that drain tube (there is one on the other side too) .   It is an owner added modification to increase drainage from the seal area, as this engine has a rubber lip seal on the crank rear main instead of the original scroll seal.

Edited April 7 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[phil Dean]

Now it makes sense, no wonder you called it  a snorkel, but mine is a 4A yes I have checked and mine is blanked off. I understand why you said 2 longer bolts were required in the sump. 

Panic over, I can get on with putting the sump and oil filter back on. I am a bit slow but usually get there in the end.

 

Phil.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Phil, when you come to refit the sump screws do not forget that the one at the front in the middle screws into the aluminium front main bearing sealer block.

The trick is the retap the hole as deep as you can with 5/16 unc as original and fit a stud, that screws to full thread depth.   Secure with Loctite.   Makes for a good alignment of the sump when you come to fit it too.   Secure the sump to the stud with washers and appropriate plain nut.   Loosely fitting another stud at the rear corner will help with alignment also   If under the car, once the sump and gasket are located on the studs you can’t hold the sump loosely up in place with a jack, fit a nut on each stud then fiddle to your hearts content getting all the other screws in. Remove the rear positional stud at the end and fit regular screw and washers.

 

Here’s one I did earlier.

 

Edited April 8 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[phil Dean]

Already done used a axle stand with a piece of wood on it then attached both long sides and opposite corner ends loosely then the rest. finger tightened them all then half torqued  them going round then retorqued  at 14 lbs square inch then 18.5 finally.

Lets hope it stops the leaks I must have spent nearly 2 hours making sure all the bolt holes were flat against the flange then checked corner to corner and holes parallel to each other. Unfortunately I don't have a dead plate but checking it on the kitchen work  surface there was no rock and I couldn't get a piece of paper to slide anywhere between the sump and the work surface. So its fingers crossed time. 

 

Phil. 

[Lebro]

37 minutes ago, phil Dean said:

 then retorqued  at 14 lbs square inch then 18.5 finally.

Phil. 

I think you mean 14 ft Lb's 

[phil Dean]

Yes sorry 14 ft Lb’s

[ianc]

Ahem - as it is torque, it is 14 lb.ft.

The unit ft.lb is for work done, as in calculating horsepower, which I seem to recall us 550 ft.lb per second.

Ian Cornish (will now crawl back inside my shell)

Edited April 9 by ianc

[Lebro]

That told me !! 

Bob

[john.r.davies]

Thank you, Ian!    I had seen either format, and never understood the difference!

John