TR Rob Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 My car ‘60 TR3a has a standard wide fan belt with alternator. The clearance between the original fan extension bottom pulley to radiator is so narrow I think I would struggle to fit a replacement belt in the event of a belt failure. Converting to narrow belt would overcome this problem as I would loose the fan extension as part of the upgrade. My question is, assuming the radiator is removed, is it possible to do this conversion without removing the front panel. I don’t particularly want to remove the front panel for fear of damaging the paint work on an otherwise unblemished paintwork. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 You won't even remove the radiator without removing the front panel first. It's not that bad a job once you have removed all the screws. just get a friend to help you carefully lift it up, & away. I have had to remove the fornt of my '3 several times since the big rebuild 10 years ago, I can do it on my own, not a big problem. It's also not a bad thing to remove & replace the front fixing bolts, every so often to prevent hem seizing. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Rob Posted February 9 Author Report Share Posted February 9 Well, if you need to remove front panel to get radiator out…. there’s my answer, front panel off !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, TR Rob said: The clearance between the original fan extension bottom pulley to radiator is so narrow I think I would struggle to fit a replacement belt in the event of a belt failure. It has been posted several times on here - the original wide belt is horribly stiff and very deep in section. You can use a modern 'cogged' BX section 17mm belt instead which is very flexible and half the depth. They do sit a little lower in the pulleys but work OK. The only thing is getting the right length as there is variation in alternator installations. https://www.bearingshopuk.co.uk/bx34-cogged-v-belt#product_tabs_tech_dimensions Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Rob Posted February 9 Author Report Share Posted February 9 Hi Rob, already have one of these and although it is not as deep as original it won’t go thro the gap between radiator and fan extension. Mind you that is trying to fit it in a non emergency situation, might “fit”if I am stuck in the middle of nowhere with a broken fan belt. I don’t know why this gap is so narrow, the car is completely standard except for a TR4 synchro gearbox fitted by PO which I am wondering , has it pushed engine forward a bit….. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 Likely but some thoughts here Removing the front apron can be an onerous task, if it’s been on the car a long time You only need a couple of the cage nuts to break the cages and it becomes very hard work I ran a wide belt for years and in the day we carried a spare wrapped in foil or cling film cable tied to the cross member so in the event of a fan belt failure a spare was easily fitted The problem was getting the belt between the crossmember and fan extension needed to slacken an engine mount a lift the sump to slide through hence doing this in the garage rather than roadside Rob some outside the box thinking might help you e.g. have you got room to lift the rad off it’s mount s leave the hoses connected and fiddle the belt over th end of the extension? or with a helper levering the engine backwards against its mounts will that’Buy’ you just enough space? Don’t forget if you try anything like this to protect the rad core it will need to be thin for you to succeed- maybe Ally? John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 (edited) 3 hours ago, TR Rob said: My car ‘60 TR3a has a standard wide fan belt with alternator. The clearance between the original fan extension bottom pulley to radiator is so narrow I think I would struggle to fit a replacement belt in the event of a belt failure. Converting to narrow belt would overcome this problem as I would loose the fan extension as part of the upgrade. My question is, assuming the radiator is removed, is it possible to do this conversion without removing the front panel. I don’t particularly want to remove the front panel for fear of damaging the paint work on an otherwise unblemished paintwork. Thanks If you can undo the crank extension bolt then you are half way there. Undo the radiator mounting bolts top and bottom and fiddling is your task i had to do all this without removing the apron when my Revotec fan motor failed. Edited February 9 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 If you run an electric fan, wide belt change is easy. Put steering on full lock….job done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 54 minutes ago, TR Rob said: except for a TR4 synchro gearbox fitted by PO which I am wondering , has it pushed engine forward a bit….. It might have if it is the thick-flange type. The early boxes had a thin flange on the bellhousing - it isn't much different but maybe enough to trap the fanbelt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 3mm? I’d be surprised if it will make any difference Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 (edited) with this in my boot I have peaceful drives Edited February 10 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Rob Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 Yes, got one of those ! That’s OK to get out of an emergency. But still got to fit a proper belt at a later date !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Rob Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 16 hours ago, John Morrison said: Likely but some thoughts here Removing the front apron can be an onerous task, if it’s been on the car a long time You only need a couple of the cage nuts to break the cages and it becomes very hard work I ran a wide belt for years and in the day we carried a spare wrapped in foil or cling film cable tied to the cross member so in the event of a fan belt failure a spare was easily fitted The problem was getting the belt between the crossmember and fan extension needed to slacken an engine mount a lift the sump to slide through hence doing this in the garage rather than roadside Rob some outside the box thinking might help you e.g. have you got room to lift the rad off it’s mount s leave the hoses connected and fiddle the belt over th end of the extension? or with a helper levering the engine backwards against its mounts will that’Buy’ you just enough space? Don’t forget if you try anything like this to protect the rad core it will need to be thin for you to succeed- maybe Ally? John. Thanks John, for those ‘thoughts’ they are not dissimilar to my thoughts if faced with a belt failure. The car is fitted with an electric fan in front of radiator and the old mechanical fan has been removed. So I can’t imagine what the PO was thinking when he noticed how narrow the gap is between radiator and the old fan extension ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Rob Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 16 hours ago, iain said: If you run an electric fan, wide belt change is easy. Put steering on full lock….job done. I have an electric fan, I can’t see see how full lock will change the gap between radiator core and the engine front pulley gap ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 18 minutes ago, TR Rob said: I can’t see see how full lock will change the gap between radiator core and the engine front pulley gap ! It doesn't - it opens the gap between the steering track rod and the pulley, which is usually the pinch point on cars which haven't been converted to R&P steering. At full lock the rod drops downward and backwards a bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 (edited) 31 minutes ago, TR Rob said: I have an electric fan, I can’t see see how full lock will change the gap between radiator core and the engine front pulley gap ! Is the radiator as far forward as it can go? To move it forward is simple if you can slacken the two bolts that attach it to the chassis. Not a simple task I hasten to add. The radiator shield is in the way unless you have an universal jointed socket to fit the bolt, then you can fiddle around the shield. Otherwise it’s remove radiator shield time. Again not the simplest of tasks. 3/8 sq drive 6 point AF sockets. The 7/16” 1/2” & 9/16” will be your friends on a TR Edited February 10 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 2 hours ago, TR Rob said: Yes, got one of those ! That’s OK to get out of an emergency. But still got to fit a proper belt at a later date !! My „cogged“ Flennor 20X900 is from 1992! IMO the worry about a belt failure is a bit hysterical, I never had one on any car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Rob Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 2 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Is the radiator as far forward as it can go? To move it forward is simple if you can slacken the two bolts that attach it to the chassis. Not a simple task I hasten to add. The radiator shield is in the way unless you have an universal jointed socket to fit the bolt, then you can fiddle around the shield. Otherwise it’s remove radiator shield time. Again not the simplest of tasks. 3/8 sq drive 6 point AF sockets. The 7/16” 1/2” & 9/16” will be your friends on a TR That could be a very good option. I think I will have a go at investigating moving the radiator forward a fraction. Like others have said the chances of belt failure are fairly low, but knowing my luck if I can’t replace it easily, I might have shortened by chances !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 (edited) If the belt is a snug fit again the radiator core and the starter dog bolt gap perhaps a sheet of smooth flexible plastic, as cut from a plastic milk bottle could be used to ease and smooth the belts passage against the radiator. Rubbing the plastic not the radiator fins. Or get the nose of the car up and have an assistant push the engine rearwards, levered with a length of wood, whilst you try to tease the belt through the gap. Edited February 10 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 9 hours ago, RobH said: It doesn't - it opens the gap between the steering track rod and the pulley, which is usually the pinch point on cars which haven't been converted to R&P steering. At full lock the rod drops downward and backwards a bit. Exactly….job done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Rob Posted February 11 Author Report Share Posted February 11 (edited) 12 hours ago, iain said: Exactly….job done. Iain….you are missing the point, the steering track rod is at the moment not an issue. The issue is the crankshaft pulley extension which used to have a mechanical fan attached ( now replaced by PO with electric fan) is so close to radiator a wide belt or indeed a narrow belt will not fit through this gap ! Edited February 11 by TR Rob Edit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 (edited) Rob, Unusual for the fan boss to be that close. Do the engine mounts look distorted, or the front plate bent? The 4 synchro boxes are about 10mm longer, and when I fitted mine I slotted the holes in the gearbox crossmember to allow the box to fit. That may not have been done in your case and might be forcing the engine 10mm forward. That may also be why the PO had to fit an electric fan. Ralph Edited February 11 by Ralph Whitaker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 Just now, Ralph Whitaker said: Rob, Unusual for the fan boss to be that close. Do the engine mounts look distorted, or the front plate bent? The 4 synchro boxes are about 10mm longer, and when I fitted mine I slotted the holes in the gearbox crossmember to allow the box to fit. That may not have been done in your case and might be forcing the engine 10mm forward. Ralph Beat me to it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 & me, I have a T2000 box which is also longer than original. I slotted both the gearbox mount & the engine mounts to achieve a reasonable fit. So my engine also is more forward than it should be. I fitted electrical fan & removed the crank extension at the same time, so had no clearance problem. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 Peter. Who stocks those 3/8 sq drive 6 point AF sockets with universal joint ? Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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