radiator filling stupid question time.

[phil Dean]

So I have got the new/used heater back in, tomorrow or early next week I will be fitting the re-cored Rad and 6 blade fan. However in the past I have somehow managed to cause airlocks when filling up with anti freeze. In the Hillman Avenger there was a certain process you went thru heater controls in certain positions, heater on when car was started. I've looked in the TR manual nothing is mentioned. 

So is there a specific process somebody has found that works well. Or is it just put in as much as possible, leave the rad cap off start the car  and burp the system squeezing the top hose. !!!

Also rather  than using bluecol has anybody found a good alternative !!

Thanks as usual for your your help. Phil 

[Z320]

Hi Phil,

I always fill up the radiator a few millimeters above  the core, let enough air in and give no other attention on it.

This matches to nothing mentioned at the TR manual. In my opinion airlocks are not possible.

With a new heater core just open the heater valve, the rest of the job does the water pump together with the closed thermostat in a few seconds.

Don’t let others make you worry

Ciao, Marco 

[charlie74]

My heater core is bypassed but I think I would raise the front of the car (use ramps perhaps), remove the thermostat and housing, open the heater valve and pour into both the block and the radiator until you can’t add any more.  Install the thermostat with the gasket, run it, let it cool (still on ramps), and add coolant as necessary. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by charlie74

[Andy Moltu]

Just fill it with the heater valve open.

Start the engine with the cap off and top up as the level falls until it stops falling.

Cap on, run up to temp and check for leaks. Short test drive.  Repeat leak checks and nip up hoses.

Allow to cool and top up.

Contrary to what is often said on here, they don't need any fancy bleeding procedure. 

[Lebro]

+1,    (heater valve open) fill, run engine, top up, done.

Bob

[Z320]

I like „fancy bleeding procedure“

[phil Dean]

thanks guys.

[stu50uk]

Is distilled water with appropriate anti-freeze the preferred method to help stop any corrosion / deposit build up ?

[RobH]

 

10 minutes ago, stu50uk said:

Is distilled water with appropriate anti-freeze the preferred method

Ideally yes.  In a soft-water area you might be OK with tap water but for most of us rain-water or distilled is best. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by RobH

[stu50uk]

1 minute ago, RobH said:

 

Ideally yes.  In a soft-water area you might be OK with tap water but for most of us distilled is best. 

How much distilled water and how much anti-freeze is needed ?

[RobH]

Many people use a 25% to 30% antifreeze mix.  The TR4 with heater has about an 8 litre water capacity so at 25% that is 2litres antifreeze to 6 litres of water.  

[stu50uk]

1 minute ago, RobH said:

Many people use a 25% to 30% antifreeze mix.  The TR4 with heater has about an 8 litre water capacity so at 25% that is 2litres antifreeze to 6 litres of water.  

Thanks for the reply.

Stuart

[phil Dean]

So I have put the new re cored rad in and the used heater because mine had split and various other parts including a tropical fan 6 blades not 4 I bought from Rich and eventually got out for a run in the car late afternoon early evening its still getting hotter than I would like in traffic but not as bad as it was before. The guy who rebuilt the rad and the guy who bought my wire wheels both advised I leave the electric fan off the car for the time being so I did.

Unfortunately when I filled the rad with antifreeze it only took 7 litres not 8 and I had flushed the block out during my rebuild with clean water eventually coming out of the drain hole in the side of the block. I am just wondering if there is still a blockage towards the back of the block. Somebody suggested using house radiator descaler has anybody tried this and if so how successfully. I am thinking of taking the thermostat out for a couple of weeks but just cutting the centre out of the thermostat because I understand you still require some back pressure.  

When I got back after 40 minutes of driving 4 sets of roadworks + 6 sets of traffic lights then a blast up onto the moors and back I used my digi thermometer to measure the temperature at first I had a shock 118 Degrees C then realised I was measuring just above the manifold. Around the otherside of the block 86 at the back 84 at the front and 78 on the top of the thermostat housing. As anybody got any comments or experiences they would like to pass on to me.

The electric fan will be going back on in a few weeks time when I start the thin belt conversion and swop from a Dynamo to an alternator. But I would like to see it run cooler before I fit the fan.

Phil.

[RogerH]

Hi Phil,

I think the descaler will not remove the cemented encrustation that can build up around #4 liner.

So don;t panic about  that until a engine removal is planned.

When driving over the moors what did the temp gauge show.?

I would keep a working thermostat in the housing.  82'C usually works well.

 

Roger

 

[RobH]

It will run at whatever temperature the thermostat determines Phil, that's what it is there for - it limits cooling flow to keep the temperature up to the desired point -  i.e. if you have an 80ºC thermostat, that is the temperature it will try to maintain. The temperatures you quote sound completely normal, even the slightly raised temp at the rear of the engine which is probably due to the poorer flow at that point .  

Why remove or modify the thermostat, what on earth is that supposed to achieve ?  What is this about 'back pressure'? There is none.

 Are you  using a sleeved bellows thermostat which closes off the bypass port or do you have a restrictor fitted in the bypass pipe? 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by RobH

[phil Dean]

Roger on the climb onto the moors it was Half way between normal and hot but it’s a decent climb about 8 to10 % loads of revs in third. To be fare light traffic but had been in heavy traffic for20 mins once on top of the moorturn to come back down a narrow road which is all first and second twisty road but it it had dropped down to near normal it started to climb again when somebody flagged me down they wanted to ask me about the car so I turned it off for5 minutes and I presume without a electric fan you get heat sink. Is that the correct term for it. When I started it up again it very quickly went to between normal and hot again but cooled again before I hit the traffic queuing thru 2sets of road works caused it to go back up to between normal and hot again. 

John maybe it’s not back pressure but I was told by an engine builder who built my AVENGER ENGINE THAT if you take a thermostat out you should have some form of restricting the water flow. I haven’t taken the thermostat out yet will try and get it done before I go away next week. Then try the hot pan of water test. 

Phil

[RobH]

There is no point in running a car without a thermostat.  All that will do is extend the time taken to warm the engine up and it will probably never reach proper working temperature anyway.  Both are bad for engine wear. 

If you are using a normal thermostat rather than a sleeved bellows type, but have no restrictor in the bypass, water will circulate locally without going through the radiator and overheating may result.  That is why I asked. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by RobH

[Z320]

Phil,

you worry not existing problems, who put this in your mind?

Ciao, Marco 

[phil Dean]

Big big apologise Rob I called you John Interesting point you make about water circulation however feeling the radiator it was defiantly warm top to bottom and the heater is defiantly pumping out enough heat. I will take the thermostat out and check it out on Grandad duties all weekend so will have a look early next week. 

Z320 I think it’s just after fighting to cool a tuned engine in the Avenger for over 2 years and never succeeding it’s always on my mind

Thanks for your advice. 

Phil

 

[Michel Higuet]

Seems our car has a 6 blades mechanical mine had a classical 4 blades TR4a, never had a problem even in traffic, the system did what it needed to do.

But I removed the mechanical fan, the big heavy nose and installed a electric fan. So in riding condition with the wind passing trough the radiator no need of a fan. When stopped in traffic slowly of course the needle of the meter will start to climb, climb a quarter on the right and at the moment the electric will start and very very quickly the needle return to his middle position. Depending on the traffic the process can start again, when road cleared no need of a fan. The electric fans is installed at the front of the radiator, much lower there is a oil cooler.

Never regretted removing the old fan and heavy accessories...   

 

 

 

[Z320]

In my opinion the TR 4 cylinder engines are cool engines 

and the water pump and radiator are very powerful.

It needs a thermostat to lift the temperature up to for example 86 deg. C.

Often it is stated the gauge is „pinned“ that way in the middle.

Why?

Because the engine is cooler and only the thermostat lifts the temperature.

Even 1 h Stau at 35 deg. C and full sun was no problem for my TR,

OK: temperature up to 110 deg C, 13 PSI rad cap and enough air in the system to be compressed 

[stuart]

14 hours ago, RobH said:

There is no point in running a car without a thermostat.  All that will do is extend the time taken to warm the engine up and it will probably never reach proper working temperature anyway.  Both are bad for engine wear. 

If you are using a normal thermostat rather than a sleeved bellows type, but have no restrictor in the bypass, water will circulate locally without going through the radiator and overheating may result.  That is why I asked. 

4a doesnt need the shrouded thermostat as they changed the water pump housing on the by pass hose to a smaller section.

Stuart.

[stuart]

Temperatures quoted on the engine are pretty normal, it may well be just the wrong sender for the gauge.

Stuart.

[Z320]

4 hours ago, stuart said:

4a doesnt need the shrouded thermostat as they changed the water pump housing on the by pass hose to a smaller section.

Stuart.

+1

[phil Dean]

I've Taken the Thermostat out to check it and apart from the horrible what looks like black silicon sealant around the gasket everything seams ok. The thermostat is a 75 degree one.  and yet everybody has said put the 82 degree one in. When I look on the Moss website it says the 75 Degree thermostat is for hot countries. I just wondered if somebody has been having overheating problems and decided to put in a hot country thermostat just to try and help the situation. Any body got any ideas. By the way the thermostat is opening reluctantly at first but is does open. 

 

Phil