TR4 Gearbox removal & replacement

[ianc]

TR4 Overdrive Gearbox renewal & replacement

4VC’s gearbox has developed a problem, which means that it needs to be removed.   The timing is not good, as I have entered the car for the Kop Hill weekend – 16th & 17th September.

I have stripped the cockpit and the gearbox is unbolted and ready to be removed, but the last time I did this, some two and a half years ago, my son (Alex, who is exceedingly fit and strong) and I struggled to get it out before it yielded.  And I'm not as strong now!

However, after it had been fettled, when we came to reinstatement, we failed.  Fortunately, Tony Sheach came to the rescue and drove 60 miles to Thame, where together the three of us got it in place.

I have a second overdrive gearbox which has been fettled, is sitting on the garage floor, and requires only the transfer of the overdrive wiring to be ready to be installed – a heart transplant operation!

However, both Alex (a GP with 3 young children) and Tony (heavy work load) would be unable to come here before the evening of Thursday 14th, and I know that reinstatement of the cockpit will take me at least 3 full days because I timed the strip down (it’s a painstaking job for which I have written a script), and reinstatement takes longer.

Alex could be available at the following times:

Friday 8th all day

Saturday 9th from 3 pm

Sunday 10th all day

Monday 11th from 7pm (not really practical as too tight on time if the gearbox resists)

I am wondering whether anyone who has undertaken this task on a TR4, is fit and lives within reach of Thame, might be able to assist Alex and myself.

If so, please PM me with contact details and availability, and I’ll respond rapidly.

Ian Cornish

[Hamish]

Ian 

if I was closer I would be very please to help. 
i am sure that you will get willing and able volunteers.

and as a note to others you don’t really need experience just some physical ability to help. With Ian and Alex having experience it’ll go smoothly. 
 

Mike Brenda’s owner/custodian help me one time and we were prepared for a struggle and it worked in the first 15mins.

so it’s not an onerous volunteer job. 
good luck for kop  hill Ian.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Hamish

[Lebro]

Hope you find someone Ian, I can't offer this time I'm afraid.

Bob

[ianc]

Thank you for the responses - the Forum is marvellous.

I am fortunate that Jerry Vincent, who lives in Chesham and has done this job on a TR6, has offered to come here tomorrow morning - am just checking that Alex will be here, too.

I'll let you know when all is installed and running - will be a few days, especially in this heat!

Ian Cornish

[ianc]

Progress Report #1

Thanks to Jerry Vincent, who arrived here in his Vincent Hurricane kit car (Spitfire chassis and running gear, MX5 engine and very smart fibreglass body), and Alex (our son, who cycled from the other side of Thame), after 2 hours, #1 gearbox was on the garage floor, overdrive and reversing lamp wiring had been transferred (after change from bullet to Lucar connectors), #2 was installed and bolted to engine and  to its rear mounting.

After lunch, Jerry re-connected the prop. shaft while I checked the operation of the gearbox switches and put the standard gear lever onto the box which now needs surgery.

By 3:20, I decided to call it a day as I was melting!

I am extremely grateful to Jerry and Alex, who worked together so well and have achieved more than I had expected in the time.    It has put me in a very good position, and I shall start early tomorrow morning whilst it is still relatively cool in the garage.

Ian Cornish

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Bravo those people who were able to come to your aid Ian.

Just do not forget the oil…….

[RogerH]

How can  it be - I was more distressed in not being able to help Ian with the Eng/GB swap than if it was my own car.

 

Well done Jerry and Alex - 'Gold Award' anybody.

 

Roger

[james christie]

Sounds like the TR Register of yore when we all used to help each other out.

Well done all of you!

james

[ianc]

True, James - I have been both surprised and delighted at the responses to my plea for assistance.

Those who were unable to assist because of distance, other commitments or health, sent good wishes, which boosted my morale.

I wrote a script for this work and I'm hoping that I can achieve a goodly amount tomorrow before sweat makes it impossible to see what I am doing.

Ian Cornish

[Hamish]

Great story for John’s forum TRAction report. 
well done all 

[ianc]

Progress Report #2

I entered the garage at 07:15 this morning, and finally shut the door at 17:15 - but I did have lunch and 2 refreshment breaks.  I put a mains-driven fan in the cabin today, and it did prevent my glasses steaming up!

Started by re-fitting clutch slave cylinder and the clutch housing cover - a pig of a job, which took me 2 hours, even though I have small hands.  Very frustrating!

Mounted handbrake lever (it's on the top of the prop shaft tunnel on the Works' Rally cars).  Then replaced the short cover which fits over the front and of the prop shaft - this, again, is a Works' mod, which is a rather good idea (as Jerry remarked yesterday).

Filled gearbox and overdrive with oil - slightly under 2 litres, but may need topping up when car has been used.  Connected the speedo drive cable.

The front half of the split gearbox cover was positioned and bolted down, having fed the overdrive and reversing lamp connections through the grommet.  Then the rear part of the cover, which bolts to the floor and is screwed to the front half.  This was followed by the H bracket and the the speedo cable's cover, which also blanks the hole in the floor for the handbrake lever which isn't there (see above).  Connected wires next to dip switch for overdrive and reversing lamps.

Early start tomorrow to commence on the dashboard electrics, which are non-standard and rather complicated on the Works' cars because of all the extra switchery etc.

Ian Cornish

[Waldi]

Wow Ian,

you’re almost there, I’m impressed by your “drive” to do this job.
And almost there….

Greetings,
Waldi

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Good luck.  Pleased to read about your progress 

[ianc]

Progress Report #3

I entered the garage at 07:30, bearing electric fan, which sat in the cabin all day, helping me quite a lot.   Finished at 17:00, having had lunch and a couple of refreshment breaks, plus a mad dash to shut windows when we had a sudden thunderstorm after lunch - and it's rained on and off since.  Still pretty warm at 18:30, and humidity 69%.

Had to replace a 3-way switch on the panel below the dashboard - the original had burst and lost its innards!  Some other wires had come adrift and the reversing lamp switch had broken in two - it's all very tight there, and I think that this winter I ought to re-wire quite a lot of the switches as it's a mare's nest!   I now have the reversing lights driven by a switch on top of the gearbox, which makes life easier for me.

Once that panel was in place, checked out most of the electrics, which reinforced my thoughts about some re-wiring.   All the wiring was bespoke to the requirements of the rally teams, installed by a technician from Lucas, who made an excellent job of it, but subsequent modifications together with moving the panel for gearbox works have not been kind to some of the original wires.  One of the first jobs I undertook in 1969 was to produce a wiring diagram for the car, and this I have kept up-to-date over the years.  Iit was invaluable when Revington TR re-built the car in 1990-1993, as Neil "doesn't do electrics".  He sent me the loom, which I laid on the dining room floor, checked point to point and put labels on every connection.  Once it had been installed, I went to Middlezoy to check everything - there was only one error!

Mounted the gear lever and its gaiter.  Because it is a special S-shape,making it vertical in order to keep it clear of the handbrake lever, it uses a TR3 rubber gaiter

Removed all protective coverings from the floors, and then cleaned them.

Re-connected seat belts to floor mountings.

Installed driver's seat - John Sprinzel was the team leader for the Works' TR4, and it's one of his Rally seats, which he was marketing in the 1960s.  Because my legs are very short, I have had to mount the seat on a pair of angle irons in order to get it further forward - makes it more fiddly to get it onto the runners, which I had left bolted to the floor.

Shifted the navigator's seat from the house to the garage, ready to install tomorrow morning.

I have to admit that with, the combination of the heat and the high humidity, I have to push myself somewhat - but I am determined to be at Kop Hill on 16th & 17th.

Ian Cornish

[Lebro]

Well done Ian, don't over do it though ! at least temperatures are cooling down a bit now.

No rain here in Leatherhead 

Bob

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Who are you calling Leather Head?   I have a relaxed hair line.

[ianc]

3rd Progress Report

Entered garage at 07:45, carrying electric fan. Not so hot today, but does make life easier!

I had taken the navigator's seat, a Triumph special, which reclines and has a headrest, out of the car with its runners attached.  Couldn't get the bolts through the 62 year old carpet into the captive nuts!

This carpet is more like a sheet of steel, and was not allowing for any movement at the holes. Took seat out (again), drilled 4 larger holes in carpet and then managed to fix the seat to the floor.

Fixed steering wheel in position (see below!).

Checked electrics then, with car still in mid-air, started engine and checked overdrive operation on 2, 3 & 4.   Has to be done at comparatively low revs and slipping the clutch as drive is engaged!

After lunch, took car for a test drive - a few noises, but nothing untoward.

However, who fixed the steering wheel one position adrift! Silly me!   Had to remove all the screws and nuts, then rotate wheel one position clockwise.

Well, this is it - just need to clean the car ready for the Kop Hill weekend.

Thanks for all the interest and encouragement - much appreciated, especially Jerry Vincent and Alex, without whom I would never have managed such a rapid transplant.

Ian Cornish

[Hamish]

Well done Ian 

dedication and perseverance over and above. 
hope you enjoy kop hill event. 

[Ian Vincent]

An old soldering iron pushed upwards through the holes in the floor from below is a good way to make holes in the carpet for the seat bolts.

Rgds Ian

[Waldi]

Excellent result Ian,

I think many of us will not do this job in just a couple of days! 

I recommend rechecking the oil level because the OD can lower the level if it has not been used (it is connected to the GB oil but the innards, like pistons are only filled during rotation.

If it has run before checking the level this is not needed.

Have a nice Kop Hill!

Waldi

[ianc]

Ian - good idea for use of soldering iron, but with captive nuts under the floor and neither carpet nor seat runners secured to the floor, increasing the size of the holes in the carpet solved my problem.

Waldi - good advice, but I deliberately didn't attempt to put all 2 litres into the box because it takes quite a while for the oil to get to the overdrive and there's no point in causing spillage on initial filling.   I'll check before taking the car to Kop Hill.   Weather for Kop Hill looking pretty good - mainly dry (chance of precipitation 10% most of the time, a couple of hours showing 20%) and temperature predicted maximum of 20 degrees.

I hope that others who are in their 80s will be encouraged to have a go and fettle their own TRs, probably with some help for the heavy lifting.

Ian Cornish

Edited September 12, 2023 by ianc

[Dave McDonald]

2 hours ago, ianc said:

I hope that others who are in their 80s will be encouraged to have a go and fettle their own TRs, probably with some help for the heavy lifting.

Ian Cornish

Well done Ian. 

I’ve been there myself, had to change the gearbox in my race TR6 at the Spa Summer Classic last year after a serious breakage in the Thursday test session to be ready for Friday qualifying. 
It was a relatively light non O/D box and I’m only a Spring Chicken at 75, but all completed successfully with the aid my 20 year old Grandson and I was able to complete qualifying and races on both Saturday and Sunday. Very satisfying working with a young family member but it wasn’t the first time for us. 
The 2 of us changed the diff to a lower ratio unit last Friday ready for an upcoming event at Oulton Park. 
Dave McD

[ianc]

Well done, Dave.

I imagine that your race TR6 won't have all the extra paraphernalia which is built into 4VC.  Nevertheless, a splendid effort by you and your grandson.

And perhaps, at 9 years younger, you would be able to work more rapidly!   Having to swap my glasses for close work slows things down, especially when I forget where I have put down the other pair!  Nor helped by the heat whilst I was working.

Ian Cornish