Help and Advice Needed

[John Morrison]

The attached picture shows the result of an O.A.P. losing control of an automatic and ramming the shop.

The worst of the damage, obviously is to the Right hand door frame.

This is a mahogany profile, clad in copper sheet, yep I kid you not - copper!

What I need to know - is the copper part, once stripped from the timber

repairable, and if so how simple would that be?

John.

 

 

[harlequin]

John

I would make an enquiry to the conservation officer at the local council, who hopefully has a list of tradesmen that work on listed buildings.

George 

[Hamish]

I guess the copper could be re worked. I think there is a current thread on annealing. (head gaskets. )

 

[brian -r]

There is a good chance it can be reformed, with the application of mild heat to soften the ageing copper,

Bri

[john.r.davies]

Copper, unlike steel, is annealed by quenching.     After work hardening and aging, it should be heated until the flame  turns green, then quenched in water,  Such a large piece as that door frame would need an oven to be heated all over, and a bath of water to quench.  All not easily found and expensive to get.   I would suggest that the pensioners insurance company would probably prefer to source a new copper part for the repair.

John

PS What a pity, to have copper cladding covered in grey paint!

[Lebro]

Copper does not need to be quenched, just heating it to red heat, & allowing to coll will work just as well. I only quench if I am in a hurry !

Bob

[Charlie D]

I would think that to get the creases out would be very time consuming, (£££) if not impossible. It must have stretched quite a bit in places.

Surely it is just a simple bent channel that could be made from a new piece of sheet copper using a folding machine. Maybe the gap between the two arms of the channel is too small for a folding machine, but then again it had to have been made somehow originally.

But does it have to be replaced with copper? Is it a listed building?

(Looks more like a 1960’s estate chip shop to me. But then again they seem to list all sorts of things these days.)

Maybe when it was built it was bare copper, but the owners got fed up with having to polish it. The door does seem to have a brass/copper handle and letter box.

As it is painted then mild steel or ally could do. It might even be a standard size of extrusion.

[Bfg]

I agree with Bob, copper does not require quenching in the annealing process, however it can help clean flakes of impurities off the surface.  I generally do not quench re-copper washers or gaskets.

The post cladding in question need not be annealed in its entirety, and quite possibly - as it has been impacted once rather than repeatedly work hardened, then it may not need it at all.  If it does then it would only be locally ..around the most severely creased parts.  If the whole piece were annealed then you'd most certainly loose the original shape in the undamaged sections.   Reworking this would necessitate recreating the timber for behind it and then using that as the former, ease the copper down onto it. Local pressure and tools will dent and stretch the metal, so spread the pressure as much as is practical. Accordingly, in this instance I would use a flat plank to clamp the straight section down onto the former and then work the damaged section while the good part is safe from accidental twist and damage. 

Of course, if the impacted section is beyond economic repair, that section could be cut out and just a short length of new / matched-to-profile copper plate soldered in place.  Smaller sections are certainly be easier to handle and much cheaper than replacing the whole.   

Pete 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Bfg

[John Morrison]

Thanks Folks.

John.

[john.r.davies]

Bob, Bfg,

I agree that quenching small parts, such as washers, is unnecessary, Their surface area to mass ratio is so large that they cool quickly in air.      But a large piece does need it, IMHO.   That long folded channel of copper sheet might have a similar ratio, but the ends would cool quicker than the middle, and  that might cause warping.

John