Petrol in the sump from mechanical pump

[MichaelH]

Hi All

After waiting for the cold snap and salty roads to be washed away I was keen to get the car out

I found that even cold the oil pressure wasn't good (previously Ok) and dropped to almost nil at tick over.

Back home I checked the dip stick and found the sump was full to the top with petrolly smelling oil

I have had this before so I drained sump and oil cooler and took the petrol pump off and ordered a repair kit from Moss which amazingly arrived almost the next day

Checked on you tube  to see repair of AC Delco mechanical  fuel pump

This shows a need to replace the rubber seal at the bottom of the pump which does not come with the repair kit

a search of the internet found a company in Malvern the can supply the necessary seal

To get at it I had to lever out the metal retaining  cap which was just peened over

Of course all my spare fuel pumps will have 40+ year old seal so I will have to wait for the Post office to start working again to deliver my ordered seals

I suspect that many people have gone to electric pumps simply because the seal haven't been included in the repair kit

Mean while Happy Christmas to all you Forumites

Michael H

[RogerH]

Hi Michael,

not sure what seal you are requiring.   the penny has dropped

The big red diaphragm should stop any fuel getting into the sump  (Until it  fails). Have a close look at it as they can split.

 

Roger

PS - as stated below the rubber seal goes below the diaphragm on its push rod.

The diaphragm is more likely to fail than the rubber seal.

Edited December 27, 2022 by RogerH

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

That’ll probably be https://www.flexolite.co.uk/categories/flexolite-fuel-pumps-repair-kits-regulators-and-filters-repair-components-for-ac-fuel-pumps

 

The seal fits round the metal stem of the diaphragm and is retained by a  cup washer.  Not all pumps had the seal fitted as far as my experience with the pumps over the years can verify.

 

This seal will reduce the issue of fuel running into the engine sump via a split pump diaphragm   The problem is greater for the TR series as the fuel tank level  is often above the fuel pump.      Hence the sidescreen cars had a fuel shut off tap on the chassis just before the pump to assist when servicing or renewing the fuel pump.   A practicality that was removed on the Micho cars.  

images below 

Edited December 24, 2022 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[MichaelH]

That's the one FPRseal2

I had recently replaced the big red diaphragm and examination does not reveal any splits

I agree with the logic that the diaphragm should keep the petrol above it

MichaelH

[Z320]

This seal was long time not available,

a member of our Stammtisch initiated making a number of them,

easy for him due to his job, but he has retired and all are sold.

The seal and retainer look like this….

 

Ciao, Marco 

[james christie]

I did suggest a couple of years ago that the SDF look at having these remanufactured - none of the repair kits, I ever purchased, included it. All well and good if it is available again. Please keep us informed of how it looks. From memory, the original has less rounded edges than the one illustrated.

Not wishing to steal this thread but while we are on the subject of pumps. Some years ago there were some main pump diaphragms being sold that were mounted upside down. I’ve got a load in one of my boxes, some red, some black. Can someone help me to identify which are the right ones.

james

[harlequin]

One of our local group went away on holiday leaving his TR with the back end up on ramps, when he got home the house stank of petrol (he has an integral garage). The fuel tank had drained through the pump into the sump and when that got full it leaked into the garage, fortunately the heating was off so the boiler didn't fire up so he still had a house to come home to.

George 

[Ralph Whitaker]

14 hours ago, harlequin said:

One of our local group went away on holiday leaving his TR with the back end up on ramps, when he got home the house stank of petrol (he has an integral garage). The fuel tank had drained through the pump into the sump and when that got full it leaked into the garage, fortunately the heating was off so the boiler didn't fire up so he still had a house to come home to.

George 

When restoring my TR3 I was missing the petrol shut off tap, so fitted an electric unit bought off ebay. It clicks open as soon as the ignition is turned on, and should it fail it has a manual by pass lever. So I never have to worry about fuel draining out of the tank . I was worried when I first fitted it, as the inlet/outlet pipes were plastic, and it didn`t specifically say it was OK for petrol, but it has been on for over 2 years now and is still fine.

Ralph

[harlequin]

6 minutes ago, Ralph Whitaker said:

When restoring my TR3 I was missing the petrol shut off tap, so fitted an electric unit bought off ebay. It clicks open as soon as the ignition is turned on, and should it fail it has a manual by pass lever. So I never have to worry about fuel draining out of the tank . I was worried when I first fitted it, as the inlet/outlet pipes were plastic, and it didn`t specifically say it was OK for petrol, but it has been on for over 2 years now and is still fine.

Ralph

That sounds like a very worthwhile mod Ralph 

I have the tap on my 3A but rarely remember to use it and my carburettored TR6 was never fitted with a tap.

The 6 has a Facet pump which is at the moment under the bonnet, I have been thinking of moving it to the boot, tucked under the tank so while the tank is empty I will do the same as you have. Ta for the idea

George 

[Ralph Whitaker]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224568534114?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D244524%26meid%3D78fe15f6b05e4dcbb0f83180ba1c2caf%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D224903343562%26itm%3D224568534114%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeedKnnRecallV1FitmentPromotionConfirmFitM1&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A22456853411478fe15f6b05e4dcbb0f83180ba1c2caf|enc%3AAQAHAAABMIoe%2BbppBcM6uOvaHv3GFMx%2FVrlLpRvtKt%2FawDPhhymwyKolNOXVBZYxlKPHs%2FAh4qKO71I1LbhrYtPdiOWIk5k4SHQYVP0L8jBxGg2cViYFTQ1fjHte3HG1nkj5YHMzzGGpbW60uo2EdqW8fSu9LnLrNIak1DcF6T7zMLOOV%2FL0R3Fasl%2F%2FAH%2FY3YsTUZtT2TXsTK%2Ffgapc4WyNyTXoT6SEv%2BBhBdtfDMFV9NPOsre7uSITQHMMzxMlXwS%2FCtLDJvD41llJEsfbCLuy5ZNgkeZJlmJJM%2FINIjUWhSmUqvuyVbd4LBTM21GLr0I%2BRb6x35e7Fof4vx7Tk0cqJrtRYU4OjSaZP6ClhV3FpXSHmaigM%2BAgiyGCP44tNQduOXKixwny1jGi62EYCrN2H8%2B63Tk%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

Seems a  bit long, but hopefully this is a lionk to the type I used.

Ralph

Or this one in brass

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324749483935?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D244553%26meid%3D94f65a235f494d4d90788d47d437d7a9%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D224568534114%26itm%3D324749483935%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithRevOptLambda90KnnRecallV1DynamicRecsysV1&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A32474948393594f65a235f494d4d90788d47d437d7a9|enc%3AAQAHAAABIAGsZDIvLnJnqJBDy64SiWV0wf9ckbdNRF1Do0rBHjc7zKeoBPPIS%2B%2FGYu437k5kEdrpr7Ab3g86FTjqHh7Auag3Y%2FMwGORBY5AvZJYfCyMvbniO0WJvZYtrM%2FkM6w2enLPjNDlawqmg%2FmmZz%2FeIoiAHlGx6VfrH8AO0VV6T0Fd4%2BHQeCeQMJSb2B6qIrLv144gAKjyOWHgLUklv3u0LomKUS%2BIjcLKEbYPYjtBe6ccOKxJnsduhZqCv1ifwGUvPpwnn1j9uQb4lfPJBS9cqynSJ1US1fnKs4lPce%2FPqg8AQzbldCffAsG0CWJDjnzyhMST5OkAlx25wlEtFB4A1YCpde9l%2F%2Byfvy4na%2FGeqnfY2xFSuZ9qkPAvC%2Fmd3VTISiQ%3D%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

Edited December 27, 2022 by Ralph Whitaker

[harlequin]

Thanks Ralph 

They look very neat

Thinking about it the valve could be wired up through the accident inertia shut of switch for a bit of extra safety 

George 

Edited December 27, 2022 by harlequin

[RogerH]

Hi Ralph,

I hope this helps -

Save the  Ebay item address (Ctrl C)

if you click on the paper clip (on the tool bar)

Insert this address (Ctrl V) into the paperclip and give it a title Like (HERE) 

this will give a shortened Ebay address   HERE

 

Roger

[Ralph Whitaker]

Both of these valves say they should be fitted between the fuel pump and the carburettor, I had no instructions when I bought my valve, which looks very similar to both of those on the above links, and fitted mine in the engine bay where the original valve would have been, that is at the end of the fuel line from the tank and before the fuel pump on the engine block, where it has worked fine for 2 years and 5000 miles. Perhaps because on a TR the tank is above the tap it gravity feeds and is not reliant on suction .

Ralph

[Ralph Whitaker]

6 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Ralph,

I hope this helps -

Save the  Ebay item address (Ctrl C)

if you click on the paper clip (on the tool bar)

Insert this address (Ctrl V) into the paperclip and give it a title Like (HERE) 

this will give a shortened Ebay address   HERE

 

Roger

Hi Roger,

you have tried to explain this to me before, but alas I still cannot find out how to do it as you suggest. Pressing ctrl C seems to do nothing, and I cannot find the paperclip symbol of which you speak. I don`t know if it is my ancient computer, or just me being ancient.

Next time one of my daughters is visiting I will have to try to remember to ask here to show me.

Ralph

[Ralph Whitaker]

1 hour ago, harlequin said:

That sounds like a very worthwhile mod Ralph 

I have the tap on my 3A but rarely remember to use it and my carburettored TR6 was never fitted with a tap.

The 6 has a Facet pump which is at the moment under the bonnet, I have been thinking of moving it to the boot, tucked under the tank so while the tank is empty I will do the same as you have. Ta for the idea

George 

Does the fuel still drain through the Facet pump when the ignition is off?, I would have thought that it would have acted as a fuel cut off anyway.

Ralph

[MichaelH]

Thanks for the fuel line cutoff switch suggestion

I think it would have to be between tank and pump to prevent  fuel syphoning through the pump when left

Either way the fuel pump needs seals to prevent  fuel getting into the sump

It has worked for 40 years so it wasn't that wrong

As and when the seals arrive I will report back on progress

MichaelH

Edited December 27, 2022 by MichaelH

[Ralph Whitaker]

1 hour ago, MichaelH said:

Thanks for the fuel line cutoff switch suggestion

I think it would have to be between tank and pump to prevent  fuel syphoning through the pump when left

Either way the fuel pump needs seals to prevent  fuel getting into the sump

It has worked for 40 years so it wasn't that wrong

As and when the seals arrive I will report back on progress

MichaelH

Hi Michael,

a friend had a repair kit recently in which the diaphragm was not properly gripped between the 2 metal discs in the centre, and could be rotated around the centre rod. If you cannot see a problem with the diaphragm itself it might be worth checking, as the fuel must be getting past somehow, unless it is getting in from somewhere else, like a flooding carburettor.

Ralph

[harlequin]

When the pump on my 3A died I bought a new old stock one from a chap somewhere near Manchester. I believe he had bought up the MODs spares for series 3 Landrovers when they were phased out. I can't remember his name of hand but I'm sure someone will come along with his details

George 

[james christie]

Dave Davies +44 1942 891444

james

[harlequin]

6 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said:

Does the fuel still drain through the Facet pump when the ignition is off?, I would have thought that it would have acted as a fuel cut off anyway.

Ralph

Yes the pump does shut off but to do any work on it like change the filter or a section of hose the tank needs draining. A tap up close to the tank will help a lot and your LPG conversion item is ideal

George 

[harlequin]

2 minutes ago, james christie said:

Dave Davies +44 1942 891444

james

That's the chap, he gave really good service 

George 

[Z320]

I dismantled one of the common repro fuel pumps,

to my surprise this seal and the retainer was fitted.

But the lever is different and poorly drilled and fixed.

So these Chinese sadly did not simply copied the pump…

[Charlie D]

Add an extra switch in series with the live feed to the electric tap and you have a simple basic anti theft device.

 

[MichaelH]

Seals arrived on the first day available (Wed) so good service from the company

I fitted the new seal under the retainer having first greased it with rubber grease and worked the diaphragm end through it

All went together well - primed the fuel line and started the engine: OK so far

This morning checked the dipstick - no petrol smell

Wait and see

I did notice that the lower part of the unit does have a small drain hole so in theory fuel leaking through should drain to the floor

Happy & Prosperous New year to all our readers!

MichaelH