Rear Axle rebuild TR2 1955

[R9mey]

Hi

I have tried to search through the forum but can't quite get to what I need.

So perhaps someone can help

I have the earlier Lockheed Axle with the Squarish hubs

The Outer oil seals are leaking and I would like to replace

I am tring to get the hubs off the driveshafts so taken off the castle nut and washer but the tapered collar just will not come off

heated it up and hit it a bit but no sign of movement it looks to have been well beaten in the past,  any suggestions?

Bear in mind the car has not been run since 1979 and appears to have sat stationary for a great deal of that time!!

Many thanks

Chris

[Lebro]

What sort of puller have you been trying ?

Bob

[R9mey]

no puller as yet , I thought the tapered collar should come out once the pressure of the nut is off?

Chris

[Richardtr3a]

Special  tool time. Good luck

Richard & B

[R9mey]

This any good?

[Ian Vincent]

I don’t know about the Lockheed axles but I have a 10 tonne hydraulic puller which I tried on my Girling axle and it achieved diddly squat. I then took the half shafts to a local workshop and they removed the hubs with their 20 tonne press but bent the flanges on the hubs in the process. 

Rgds Ian

[Lebro]

The early hubs should be much easier to pull off. I remember doing it on two occasions when I had to replace broken half shafts. One of them was done at the side of the road where the shaft broke!

Bob

[R9mey]

 

The tapered collar seems to be very wedged in and I feel that this should be out before I try a puller,  to stand any chance of the hub coming off

 

Seems to be a bit of a odd arrangement as there is a grease nipple for the bearing  but the oil is getting past the bearing and seal ? I think later axles had an inner seal before the bearing?

 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

26 minutes ago, R9mey said:

 

The tapered collar seems to be very wedged in and I feel that this should be out before I try a puller,  to stand any chance of the hub coming off

 

Seems to be a bit of a odd arrangement as there is a grease nipple for the bearing  but the oil is getting past the bearing and seal ? I think later axles had an inner seal before the bearing?

 

Whatever you do do not attack the collar and damage it.   They are the proverbial hen’s teeth 

[R9mey]

 

I had a quick look and as you say none about

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by R9mey

[Ian Vincent]

38 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Whatever you do do not attack the collar and damage it.   They are the proverbial hen’s teeth 

Presumably they are something that anyone with a lathe and one to copy, could knock up fairly easily. 

Rgds Ian

[R9mey]

Possibly but forming the internal splines might prove tricky

 

Just spoken to my Brother who is a toolmaker/precision engineer

He is up for trying and could 'broach' the internal splines

 

I would still like to get this apart, is there a tool exchange/hire/borrow within the club?

as a Churchill puller M86 puller would seem the best to use

Chris

Edited December 20, 2022 by R9mey

[Lebro]

Just reading up (in the Triumph workshop manual) on how to remove hub from half shaft, with steel wheels it just says undo & remove the nut, then remove the tapered collar .  For wire wheels (different hub) it says:

"By inserting a screwdriver blade into the cut of the split tapered collar, the collar will expand and allow it to be withdrawn from the hub".

I presume all the collars have the split, so might be worth trying that ?

Bob

[R9mey]

On this the splits are inside the hub and I assume the hub has a matching taper which when the nut is tightened clamps the collar/hub to the axle.

The manual indeed say to casually remove the collar but it has been there a while I guess

 

Just tried much heat hammering and quenching but still no movement

 

Looks like the axle will need to come out, I assume once the four bolts are undone the shaft will only be held on with the bearing

Chris

 

[stuart]

50 minutes ago, R9mey said:

On this the splits are inside the hub and I assume the hub has a matching taper which when the nut is tightened clamps the collar/hub to the axle.

The manual indeed say to casually remove the collar but it has been there a while I guess

 

Just tried much heat hammering and quenching but still no movement

 

Looks like the axle will need to come out, I assume once the four bolts are undone the shaft will only be held on with the bearing

Chris

 

Once you undo the four bolts the whole lot with the half shaft comes out.

Stuart.

[R9mey]

Hi thanks Stuart

Halft shaft came out easy!

but no help really

there is a small gallery where the gease sits but no inner oil seal between shaft and tube

I have read elsewhere that the outer seal acts more as a grease seal as little oil makes its way to the end of the axle during normal use

so  if the bearing is packed with grease any small anount of oil is stopped by the gease?

 

is there an oil seal available to go between axle and tube?

Chris

 

[stuart]

There is just the one seal between the bearing and the hub which in theory holds grease and oil from escaping onto the linings, in practice the seals werent very good and needed replacing often. Also over enthusiastic greasing of the hub bearing would also push past the seal too.

Stuart.

[R9mey]

Ok thanks

back to hub removal

 

 

[ianc]

When working in Stafford in the 1960s, my TR2, fitted with just this sort of axle, broke a half shaft in Stoke on Trent.  The Triumph garage in Stoke replaced the half shaft and I returned to Stafford, where I realised that the mechanic had failed to refit the taper collar, thus permitting the hub to move laterally on the half shaft.  As I was heading home to Surrey the next afternoon, I found a piece of steel tubing, cut it to fit and used it to hold the hub in place. On the Saturday, I drove to the large Triumph agent on the Western Avenue, bought a taper collar and fitted it to make all safe.

These early axles leak badly and are forever wetting their brake shoes.  Wish I had known about TR3 axles back then as I could have got one from a scrap yard (along with fixings, as they differ), fitted it and never had to worry further.  But there was no Internet or TR Register back then, so information was sadly lacking.

Ian Cornish

[R9mey]

Wise words there Ian maybe accept oily brakes for now.

Thanks for all the replies looks like the hubs are going to stay on for now, the bearings and seals can always be done later once every thing is back together if the hub seals leak too much.

Might be easier then as the axle will be more secure as opposed to balancing on the work benches.

So on with the cleaning and painting

Thanks

Chris

 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Read the axle challenges here.    Page 2 onwards

 

[mikej]

The splined parts you consider making are hardened, may not be advisable to use MSteel?  Temperature cycling the assembly may help, should come off with a press, unlike the later Girling types. 20t and a torch on both mine. 

[Charlie D]

16 hours ago, ianc said:

....there was no Internet or TR Register back then....

True.

But like you say:

"I found a piece of steel tubing, cut it to fit and used it to hold the hub in place."

Somehow can't imagine people with modern cars doing that sort of thing these days.

Charlie

 

[R9mey]

Bearing Looks and feels ok

so packed fresh grease in the channel and bolted back up and added more grease via the grease nipple

 

 

 

[stuart]

Thats where youve gone wrong, too much grease i.e.more than about one stroke per year in the grease nipple is too much, when it gets hot it leaches through onto the linings.

Stuart.