North London Mike Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Hi Guys Old chestnut, brake servo's Done the research, read the old postings and most of them are about 'how much' and 'how to' I have read the period road tests where the cars had the servo's and everybody raves about the performance and low effort levels etc. I know the non servos boys talk about feel and connection etc My 4 is sans servo and, frankly, its bloody hard work After my modern and even my old Frogeye I have rising panic every time I have to stamp on the middle pedal for an unplanned braking moment............ The TRNLG boys all say I should get a servo and I fancy givining the leg a rest as I'm starting to walk in circles Any feed back from those of you that have either converted or wish they hadn't ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scv Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Hi Mike I wasn't too happy with the brakes on my 4. I renewed the caliper seals as the pistons were sticking but more importantly also fitted braided hoses front and back. One of the pipes had collapsed internally and although it looked perfect from outside was all but useless. The difference was enormous. Might be worth a try before going down the servo route. Cheers Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
North London Mike Posted August 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Thanks Steve Brakes are new from top to bottom so (hopefully) all OK. She stops full square and I can lock her up if I want (pre-ABS model ) Only by then I'm standing on the pedal and bending the Mota Lita Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Wyer Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 First thing I did on my TR4 was fit a servo, its the best and cheapest improvement I have made to the car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ade-TR4 Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Hi Mike, I've got new standard calipers, greenstuff pads, drilled discs (standard size/ thickess), braided hoses and Alfin rear drums and the TR4 stops on a dime; it's the tyres that are the weak link in the chain now. I've driven Andy's Rally-pre'd TR4; it's seriously fast but without servo'd brakes it's a bit "eye-popping" in a worrying sense. Especially at warp speeds! The problem arises when you've put a sports exhaust, fast cam, flowed head, better suspension etc etc. It's got to be hauled to a stop at some point, sometimes sooner than you'd hoped! It wouldn't be so bad if I drove the TR every day as my only car, but even my Dolly Sprint has a servo and is easier in comparison. I would highly recommend a servo! Cheers Ade Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robin Powell Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 The 2 things to do to reduce pedal pressure are replace the pads with greenstuff ones and fit a servo. My 4A now brakes almost like a modern car rather than having that sinking feeleing every time you get back in the TR from a eurobox! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 The TRNLG boys all say I should get a servo and I fancy givining the leg a rest as I'm starting to walk in circles Try left-foot braking to even them up. ... I can lock her up if I want (pre-ABS model ) Only by then I'm standing on the pedal and bending the Mota Lita If you are braking that late and hard, you probably need that other modern invention - ABS. Has anyone actually developed this for the early TRs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
North London Mike Posted August 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Thanks guys Your right! I have got all the mods, gas flowed head, hot cam, sports exhaust etc etc and yes the brakes do work but the pedal pressure is very high So thanks for confirming my thoughts, servo it is (ABS? I don't think so Brian ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davepowderblue Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Mike as your car is a VC works replica , you need a brake servo . The works TR4s had brake servos fitted to them . look at page 135 of Graham Robsons Thw Works Triumph book . And by the way it helps you a hell of a lot when a modern car brakes suddenly infront of you . Its saved the front end of my car at least twice ! yours Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
North London Mike Posted August 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Mike as your car is a VC works replica , you need a brake servo . The works TR4s had brake servos fitted to them . look at page 135 of Graham Robsons Thw Works Triumph book . And by the way it helps you a hell of a lot when a modern car brakes suddenly infront of you . Its saved the front end of my car at least twice ! yours Dave Dave I couldn't agree more. Page 135 kind of got me started down this road. Thanks for the confirm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davepowderblue Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Mike keep a look out for a Clayton Dewandre Lincoln Servo it is the early TR4 servo and is very rare . yours David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davepowderblue Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Picture of Servo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
North London Mike Posted August 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Picture of Servo No photo ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeF Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 If you add a servo you ought to have seat belts, [you probably have anyway), the reason is that if you brake hard unbelted you will come forward out of your seat onto the pedal. servoe'd but seat belt free (or too slack fixed belts) you can end up givng the pedal a push that will lock the wheels producing a marked reduction in braking, Unservoed the pedal pressure is high enough taht you still ahve progression even if you are sliding forward onto the pedal. Myself I think the unservoed pedal is very controllable and direct, and everything is nicely balanced - but neither my car nor me is a highly tuned racer. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
North London Mike Posted August 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 If you add a servo you ought to have seat belts, [you probably have anyway), Mike Thanks Mike Four point harness, 4" webbing See your point though Quote Link to post Share on other sites
david ferry Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Four point harness, 4" webbing Are you sure? David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
North London Mike Posted August 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Are you sure? David Dave Good catch, I meant 3" webbing of course (also FIA approved) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
unclepete Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Mike Not being adverse to giving her a bit of wellie now and again I did think about fitting a servo. The first thing I did was take her out on a bone dry day - warmed the tyres up and then tried to lock her up. Succeeded without too much effort (I am 16 stone!) so decided not to bother. Weight/strength must come into the equation. One of our group (who shall remain nameless) TR6, mid 70s, about 10 stone soaking wet, has a servo fitted - well I wouldn't fancy him behind me in a convoy if he didn't have a bit of help stopping! Unc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
North London Mike Posted August 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 MikeNot being adverse to giving her a bit of wellie now and again I did think about fitting a servo. The first thing I did was take her out on a bone dry day - warmed the tyres up and then tried to lock her up. Succeeded without too much effort (I am 16 stone!) so decided not to bother. Weight/strength must come into the equation. One of our group (who shall remain nameless) TR6, mid 70s, about 10 stone soaking wet, has a servo fitted - well I wouldn't fancy him behind me in a convoy if he didn't have a bit of help stopping! Unc Hi Unc Excellent As I said earlier I can lock her up buts its either hard work or adrenalin led I'm looking forward to lazy breaking Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jemgee Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 The point about locking up is a good one. Once the wheeels are locked up its the grip of the tyre onto the road surface that is the issue. I just noticed on my new Yokos the traction rating is AA but my previous ones were only A rated. I assume that must influence the point at which lock up occurs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Does the traction of the tyre significantly affect the ability to lock the brakes? I'm no expert, but I would have thought the point at which the wheels lock-up was primarily (or solely) a function of the efficiency of the braking system and therefore dependent to a great extent on brake disk and pad materials. Once the wheels are locked, stopping is totally dependent on the friction between tyres and road surface. Ideally, the wheels should continue turning, as slowly as possible, so that the car rolls to a halt rather than skidding. Hence the desirability of ABS, since the human ability to perform cadence braking is severly limited. In my experience, this is further reduced when a servo is fitted, since there is less feel/feedback from the pedal/foot to brain. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
unclepete Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Does the traction of the tyre significantly affect the ability to lock the brakes? Brian It must do - I can lock up the 155s on my wire wheels no problem it takes a lot more effort with the 185s on my alloy knock offs! Unc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
North London Mike Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 The point about locking up is a good one. Hi Guys Just thought I'd give you some feed back on fitting the servo, bloody fantastic !! First drive, still on auto pilot, came round a corner to find a stationary line of traffic and applied the 'old' level of braking..................locked up, skidded for about twenty feet and came to a stop ten feet short of the rear most car, sitting in a cloud of rubber dust with everybody staring, looking for the crash !! Best money I've spent on the car so far BIG improvement, so thanks for the advice and for you non-servo boys, do it ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RandallD Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Hello- I am a new TR Register member, and also new to the forum, so first post: I am interested in a servo setup, but this is only possible for the single hydraulics setup, correct? I am also very interested in the dual M/C setup like Revington has for added piece of mind. As semi-relevent background, I am a Texan currently enjoying working in London for the next year or so - but I left my TR4s in storage and miss them terribly. I will attempt to indulge my Triumph obsession this next weekend and Stoneleigh - looking forward to it. Regards, Randy 65 TR4 CT36341 LO 64 TR4 CT30560 LO (in pieces) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I suggest you talk to Neil about power assistance on dual circuit brakes - he is always coming up with new ideas/products. I believe that his split front/rear set-up slightly increases the amount of effort required of your right leg, as the total piston area of the 2 master cylinders exceeds that of the original single unit, but it is not an enormous increase, and I have driven 3VC without feeling that it lacked brakes! I owned two TR2s in the 1960s - the first was drums all round, and would slow from 90 to 30 mph, but didn't really want to stop! The second had been fitted with disc front brakes and was a revelation! Neither had a servo. When I bought 4VC in 1969, it had a servo (quite right, the Works Rally cars were so equipped) - and I disliked it for a number of reasons: as I slowed to a halt, I had to relieve pressure on the pedal at low speed if I wanted to get constant deceleration; it seemed to impose a fractional delay in operation; I never had a nice hard feel to the brakes; difficult to tell when the front wheel bearings needed adjustment. I removed the contraption very soon, and got back to proper brakes! Even though I am only 5' 6" and weigh less than 10 stones (140 lbs in the USA), I find that a TR, which only weighs about a ton, has superbly progressive braking and, with 195/65 Pirellis, I can just lock the front wheels (even at my advanced age!). However, maximum braking requires that the wheels do NOT lock. Some cars (Vauxhalls being the worst I have met) have far too much assistance, such that a sneeze whilst braking will lock the wheels and you are out of control. In contrast, my Citroen Xantia has excellent servo assistance (i.e. very little) and the feel is ideal. I agree entirely with fitting braided brake hoses - it makes the pedal feel much harder and gives one so much greater security. Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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