Family Tree program

[stillp]

1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

 

Military medals are always of interest, as they are intrinsically human stories.  Recently, I traced at the National Archive, the "War Diary" of my father's unit as they went into France on D-Day.    Another insight, as I read what they did in his own handwriting.      There were too many exploits for everyone to get a medal then.   How did your 'relative' win theirs?

 

 

I don't know why he was given the MC John - I found a reference in an index to the London Gazette to the award, but haven't found the actual citation. I think I'd need to visit Kew for that. I found the citation for another distant relative who was awarded a Distinguished Service Cross while a Sergeant in the Medical Corps during WW1. The citation states that he went out into No Man's Land under fire, to treat wounded from both sides, "at least 13 times". He was ordered to cease, but ignored the order, so he was removed from the front line.

Pete

[stillp]

9 minutes ago, RogerH said:

I have a son !!    

Less than 1% of one anyway!

Pete

[stillp]

56 minutes ago, SuzanneH said:

I hope you can read this, it is about my First Cousin Twice  removed Elizabeth Mary Stiff’s first husband Herbert Revans Chisnall both from Hadleigh Suffolk. He was a victim f Gallipoli, my Grandfather was in the RN during WW1 and rescued troops from  Gallipoli and married to my grandmother Maud Emily STIFF from Raydon Suffolk. 
I have done all of my reseach without visiting the National Archive at Kew ( just down the road/ canal from me) once.

 

 

My paternal grandfather lied about his age to join up in 1914 and took part in the second Gallipoli invasion, at Suvla Bay. He was wounded in the back and shoulder within 3 weeks of arrival there, and lost much of the use of his left arm. He was discharged as "Unlikely to become an efficient soldier" just before his 18th birthday, so was at first refused a pension as he was too young when wounded!

The National Archive is well worth a visit Sue, there's nothing like handling the original documents with you great-grandfather's signature on.

Pete

[stillp]

I should have added that Grandad, although discharged, had signed up "for the duration of hostilities", which did not formally end until 1922, so he still belonged to the King. When released from hospital he became a checker in an ammunition factory, where he met my grandmother.

Pete

[SuzanneH]

19 minutes ago, stillp said:

My paternal grandfather lied about his age to join up in 1914 and took part in the second Gallipoli invasion, at Suvla Bay. He was wounded in the back and shoulder within 3 weeks of arrival there, and lost much of the use of his left arm. He was discharged as "Unlikely to become an efficient soldier" just before his 18th birthday, so was at first refused a pension as he was too young when wounded!

The National Archive is well worth a visit Sue, there's nothing like handling the original documents with you great-grandfather's signature on.

Pete

Pete, I have his original Royal Naval record, he had left the RN just before WW1 but joined the.  RN  Reserves and was recalled very soon after leaving. I have his postcards to my grandmother sent during  WW1.

Edited January 29, 2022 by SuzanneH

[SuzanneH]

20 minutes ago, stillp said:

My paternal grandfather lied about his age to join up in 1914 and took part in the second Gallipoli invasion, at Suvla Bay. He was wounded in the back and shoulder within 3 weeks of arrival there, and lost much of the use of his left arm. He was discharged as "Unlikely to become an efficient soldier" just before his 18th birthday, so was at first refused a pension as he was too young when wounded!

The National Archive is well worth a visit Sue, there's nothing like handling the original documents with you great-grandfather's signature on.

Pete

Poor chap it’s terrible. What they went. Through.

Suvla is one of the blocks at RAF Uxbridge ( the only one they saved and the one the IRA tried to blow up) it’s amazing what you learn doing Ancestry, I didn’t know before that it was a name of a place related to WW1

[Dic Doretti]

My great uncle joined the Royal Flying Corps in 1917 and died in the Royal Air Force in 1918. Why the name change?

He is pictured on the left, his brother on the right was captured on the Somme and spent the rest of the war in a prison camp

Cheers Richard

[stuart]

1 minute ago, Dic Doretti said:

My great uncle joined the Royal Flying Corps in 1917 and died in the Royal Air Force in 1918. Why the name change?

He is pictured on the left, his brother on the right was captured on the Somme and spent the rest of the war in a prison camp

Cheers Richard

The Royal Flying Corps became the RAF in 1918 when they became a service in their own right as previous to that the RFC was officially part of the army hence why lots of pilots had originally served in the trenches before transferring.

Stuart.

[stillp]

52 minutes ago, SuzanneH said:

Poor chap it’s terrible. What they went. Through.

Suvla is one of the blocks at RAF Uxbridge ( the only one they saved and the one the IRA tried to blow up) it’s amazing what you learn doing Ancestry, I didn’t know before that it was a name of a place related to WW1

I didn't even know that Granddad had been at Gallipoli - I'd always thought it was just an ANZAC campaign. A few years after my mother died, when I started the family tree research, I visited my dad's baby sister, the last surviving relative who knew Granddad, and she told me. At first I didn't believe her, she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and was just starting to lose her marbles, and I couldn't believe he'd joined the 1st Essex Regiment He came from a small town in Herefordshire), but my next stop was in Chelmsford, and someone in the Essex Records Office told me the Essex Regimental Museum was nearby, so I went and asked the Curator, who within a few minuted confirmed Granddad's service number, the date he entered the Balkans (the area for Gallipoli) and his service medal awards. I've been through all the 1st Essex War Diaries at Kew, but being only an OR (Other Rank) his wounding doesn't get a mention. I narrowed down the date of his wounding from hospital records on Find My Past.

The whole project has been a voyage of discovery for me - my grandparents had died before I was born or when I was very young, my father died when I was young, and I never thought to ask my mother about our ancestors. I'd always thought my father's family were from Herefordshire and my mother's from Pembrokeshire, but go back another generation or two and dad's grandfather was from Ireland, and his grandmother form Cornwall. Mum's father was from Pembrokeshire, but he married a girl from Sunderland who was the daughter of a chap from Essex!

Pete

[stillp]

1 hour ago, SuzanneH said:

Pete, I have his original Royal Naval record, he had left the RN just before WW1 but joined the.  RN  Reserves and was recalled very soon after leaving. I have his postcards to my grandmother sent during  WW1.

Very few of my family's service records have survived. Grandad's older brother was called up, posted to the Medical Corps, but discharged after only 42 days, suffering from "flat feet and urinary incompetence"!

I didn't understand your reference to centiMorgans Sue, so I looked it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centimorgan but I'm not much wiser now! I'll have a chat to the family DNA expert next time she visits.

Pete

[SuzanneH]

19 minutes ago, stillp said:

I didn't even know that Granddad had been at Gallipoli - I'd always thought it was just an ANZAC campaign. A few years after my mother died, when I started the family tree research, I visited my dad's baby sister, the last surviving relative who knew Granddad, and she told me. At first I didn't believe her, she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and was just starting to lose her marbles, and I couldn't believe he'd joined the 1st Essex Regiment He came from a small town in Herefordshire), but my next stop was in Chelmsford, and someone in the Essex Records Office told me the Essex Regimental Museum was nearby, so I went and asked the Curator, who within a few minuted confirmed Granddad's service number, the date he entered the Balkans (the area for Gallipoli) and his service medal awards. I've been through all the 1st Essex War Diaries at Kew, but being only an OR (Other Rank) his wounding doesn't get a mention. I narrowed down the date of his wounding from hospital records on Find My Past.

The whole project has been a voyage of discovery for me - my grandparents had died before I was born or when I was very young, my father died when I was young, and I never thought to ask my mother about our ancestors. I'd always thought my father's family were from Herefordshire and my mother's from Pembrokeshire, but go back another generation or two and dad's grandfather was from Ireland, and his grandmother form Cornwall. Mum's father was from Pembrokeshire, but he married a girl from Sunderland who was the daughter of a chap from Essex!

Pete

See how interesting it gets. I’m in much the same situation being an only child and my only living grand parent died on my 3rd birthday.

I started my Family History when I was 14 and dads oldest sister died. We had to clear her house out and we found a small attaché case of family Birth, Death and Marriage certificates. Included in these Certs were some copies and mostly originals, it turns out my Aunt was trying to prove we are related to William Penn the founder of America. I have a 3x great grandfather William Penn born in Chalfont St Giles in 1700s ( this is where Jordan’s is, where THE William Penn lived and is buried).

All this coincided with a Jane Austin themed parent evening at my secondary school where they wanted someone to trace their family tree back to the Jane Austin era, I was that person.

I think being an only Child that I need my Ancestors as others need their siblings or at least my Ancestors take the place of the siblings and family that are missing from my life.

I have inherited my grandads Queen Mary tobacco tin and also a Boomerang that I think must have been given to him by one of the Anzacs that he brought/rescued home from Gallipoli.

Edited January 29, 2022 by SuzanneH

[stillp]

You started young then Sue. I was in my late 50s when I started. When we cleared mum's house there were a couple of certificates and a sketch of what she knew of her family tree, which got me started a few years later.

The research gets a bit easier every year as more records are put online. It must have been really difficult when you had to visit local archives are the Family Records Centre and search the original registers.

Pete

[SuzanneH]

17 minutes ago, stillp said:

You started young then Sue. I was in my late 50s when I started. When we cleared mum's house there were a couple of certificates and a sketch of what she knew of her family tree, which got me started a few years later.

The research gets a bit easier every year as more records are put online. It must have been really difficult when you had to visit local archives are the Family Records Centre and search the original registers.

Pete

Yes it has got much easier with the advent of the internet and sites like Ancestry and before that Genes reunited. All my research when I was younger was from family records and confirming my aunts work and just reading encyclopaedia and references to William Penn. On his line I am no further forward than when I was 14 and was hoping that DNA may solve the mystery. I have found other Penn Ancestors and relations but have not been able to take my tree back further on his line.

[john.r.davies]

Going back to the top of this thread "sharing less than 1% of DNA" is less than meaningless.   Humans share 98.8% of their DNA with chimps, and 60% with bananas!

But family, and local history, throws up fascinating stories.    My own house was built for himself and family by a local builder, by the magnificent name of Amos Greenwood Douthwaite!  He started life in poverty, single mother three brothers all older.     The Census sees him rise, through 'builders labourer', to 'carpenter', then 'joiner' (more skilled) and then 'building contractor'.  His firm built much of the housing that exploded around my city in the 19th century, and he died, shortly after my house -his dream house! - was completed, the 1906 equivalent of a millionaire.

I've looked, he left none of it under the floorboards!

Edited January 29, 2022 by john.r.davies

[SuzanneH]

33 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

Going back to the top of this thread "sharing less than 1% of DNA" is less than meaningless.   Humans share 98.8% of their DNA with chimps, and 60% with bananas!

But family, and local history, throws up fascinating stories.    My own house was built for himself and family by a local builder, by the magnificent name of Amos Greenwood Douthwaite!  He started life in poverty, single mother three brothers all older.     The Census sees him rise, through 'builders labourer', to 'carpenter', then 'joiner' (more skilled) and then 'building contractor'.  His firm built much of the housing that exploded around my city in the 19th century, and he died, shortly after my house -his dream house! - was completed, the 1906 equivalent of a millionaire.

I've looked, he left none of it under the floorboards!

And that’s what it’s all about, a lovely history seen through the census.

[Motorsport Mickey]

"Humans share 98.8% of their DNA with chimps, " I reckon I know a few that exceed that John ! 

Mick Richards

[john.r.davies]

1 hour ago, SuzanneH said:

And that’s what it’s all about, a lovely history seen through the census.

Yes, indeed an extraordinary source!    And the 1921 Census is now public information after 100 years, that last for another thirty years, as the 1931 was destroyed by fire, and there wasn't one in 1941!   See 1921 Census of England & Wales https://www.findmypast.co.uk/1921-census

JOhn

 

[stillp]

4 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

Yes, indeed an extraordinary source!    And the 1921 Census is now public information after 100 years, that last for another thirty years, as the 1931 was destroyed by fire, and there wasn't one in 1941!   See 1921 Census of England & Wales https://www.findmypast.co.uk/1921-census

JOhn

 

Yes, but you need to pay extra to see the 1921 census! 

Pete

[stillp]

There are some sad stories hidden in the census too. In one, I found an ancestor of my wife, living with his wife and their son, 3 months old. In the next census 10 years later, he's living with the same wife, and a son of the same name, but the son was 5 months old. Checking the birth registers, the poor woman had had 11 sons in those 10 years, all named the same. Not one of them survived a year. Heartbreaking.

Pete

[SuzanneH]

43 minutes ago, stillp said:

Yes, but you need to pay extra to see the 1921 census! 

Pete

Don’t forget the 1939 register to register everyone before WW2 I find that an absolute treasure trove.

[stillp]

Yes, the 1939 Register is really useful.

Pete

[john.r.davies]

Yes, Pete, infant mortality was dreadful then.

ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Infant-mortality-in-selected-European-countries-1800-2010-moving-5-year-average_fig1_282074475

The vertical axis is per thousand live births.  So in the UK - which had good figures! - 15% of babies 1 in 7,  died within two years!

My great grandfather was David, but his parents had another boy they called David three years before, who died at two years old.   Four other siblings, born before and after him,  lived for less than two years,   Not just infants - his brother, Richard, two years younger, had scarlet fever as a child, recovered but died of secondary heart failure at only twenty years old and another son died at 17.   Out of nine children, born between 1828 and 1843, only three survived to adulthood, and one of those lived to only 37 years.   David made it to 87!

[john.r.davies]

Deleted

Edited January 30, 2022 by john.r.davies

[stillp]

The true figures are perhaps worse than they appear in your graph John, since miscarriages won't be included, and at least in the early 19thC it was common practice to only baptise and register children after it was believed they would survive a reasonable time.

Looking at parish records in Essex, I was surprised at the number of multiple baptisms - I thought there must be a high proportion of twins and triplets, until someone explained to me that the fee for baptising two or three babies was about the same as for one! There was also an issue of time off work, very difficult for poor ag labs. So, the parents would wait until they had a few children needing baptism. What happened if a child died before being baptised?

Pete

[SuzanneH]

1 hour ago, stillp said:

The true figures are perhaps worse than they appear in your graph John, since miscarriages won't be included, and at least in the early 19thC it was common practice to only baptise and register children after it was believed they would survive a reasonable time.

Looking at parish records in Essex, I was surprised at the number of multiple baptisms - I thought there must be a high proportion of twins and triplets, until someone explained to me that the fee for baptising two or three babies was about the same as for one! There was also an issue of time off work, very difficult for poor ag labs. So, the parents would wait until they had a few children needing baptism. What happened if a child died before being baptised?

Pete

That is very. Interesting Pete I have often wondered why my grandfather was Christened at the age of ten along with three of his nephews and niece in 1881, they must have got a discount. He was the youngest child of eleven living children, one brother, Francis,was deaf and dumb ( apologies , I dont know the accepted current terminology for this condition)  he was lucky enough to go to a special school in London to be educated properly.

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by SuzanneH