petertrs Posted May 6, 2021 Report Share Posted May 6, 2021 I have just gone through the hassle or removing my steering box to replace the oil seal that had decided to give up the ghost. before I stick the nose cone back on I am contemplating filling the box with Penrite Steering Box Lube instead of the tried and tested Hypoy EP Oil. Has anyone any experience or opinions of this 'semi fluid' grease? With thanks, Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted May 6, 2021 Report Share Posted May 6, 2021 Yes- good stuff. I have used it in both my old cars. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted May 6, 2021 Report Share Posted May 6, 2021 I have it in both my TR2s. It works well and stays in there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 6, 2021 Report Share Posted May 6, 2021 +1 did you wrap tape round the splines so when the seal was fitted the splines did not cut the seal lip? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted May 6, 2021 Report Share Posted May 6, 2021 Millars also do a suitable steering box lube. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NCS_TR3A Posted May 6, 2021 Report Share Posted May 6, 2021 I've been using penrite for a while now, worked well and no noticeable wear in the box so far. My only concern would be getting it out if I deemed in necessary to change it........ But its still looking good (I actually checked this the other day before the plan to put the engine back in this weekend). Oh..... And it does leak out. Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
petertrs Posted May 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2021 Thanks for all the replies. My concers were similar to Neil's - how to drain it if necessary and also how to monitor the level through the filler hole in the steering tube, but I will give it a go. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NCS_TR3A Posted May 7, 2021 Report Share Posted May 7, 2021 40 minutes ago, petertrs said: Thanks for all the replies. My concers were similar to Neil's - how to drain it if necessary and also how to monitor the level through the filler hole in the steering tube, but I will give it a go. Peter Actually filling through the hole is possible, but it takes time. Warm up the oil, suck it up into a syringe and the pump into hole. It's a lot quicker if you have an assistant turning the steering wheel from side to side (wheels off the ground). It does take some time and best doing it over a few days to allow the oil to flow down the column. I've just done this last weekend whilst the engine was out. You don't need the engine out to do it obviously, it was just an opertunity to have clearer access. Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 7, 2021 Report Share Posted May 7, 2021 I saw this method done on a Daimler Dart and thought it to be a nice mod Drill and tap the screwed filler plug fitted in the steering box top cover to accept a bleed nipple. Fill your pressure grease gun with steering box lube Remove original filler plug from outer column Attach oil filled pressure grease gun to nipple and pump till oil shews at the filler plug hole in the column outer tube below the front carb. Refit filler plug to column You can use steering box lube in front suspension trunnions so the ‘grease’ gun is dedicated for steering box oil use. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
petertrs Posted May 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2021 Sounds a very good approach. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nobbysr Posted May 8, 2021 Report Share Posted May 8, 2021 Its also worth considering a semifluid gear oil in the steering box , i have run a NLGI 000 semi fluid oil for some years now with no problem, its possible to use an NLGI 00 which is higher viscosity than an NLGI 000, but you have to be patient filling the box . if you are looking for something that's a thicker oil than SAE 90 you can move to an SAE 140 GL4 or GL5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Owen Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 On 5/7/2021 at 4:30 AM, NCS_TR3A said: Actually filling through the hole is possible, but it takes time. Warm up the oil, suck it up into a syringe and the pump into hole. It's a lot quicker if you have an assistant turning the steering wheel from side to side (wheels off the ground). It does take some time and best doing it over a few days to allow the oil to flow down the column. I've just done this last weekend whilst the engine was out. You don't need the engine out to do it obviously, it was just an opertunity to have clearer access. Neil Would someone mind pointing out the above mentioned drain and fill points please and thank you. I have some residual oil in the box that needs to be drained before I start the process of filling it with the Penrite Semi Fluid grease. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 34 minutes ago, David Owen said: Would someone mind pointing out the above mentioned drain and fill points please and thank you. I have some residual oil in the box that needs to be drained before I start the process of filling it with the Penrite Semi Fluid grease. As far as I know from rebuilding two steering boxes, the only way to get the dregs of oil/grease out are to take the end plate off and remove it there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 (edited) Agreed. Slack the 4 bolts off that hold the end plate in place by 1 full turn so the oil can dribble out. Leave overnight. Do not remove endplate or be tempted to wriggle it about unless you have a spare gasket to hand. The oil should dribble through the gap between end plate, shims and housing……slowly. Slacking the brass nut will also let out oil but needs a second person to hold the horn push in place when re tightening. The stator tube tends to rotate as you tighten the brass nut to nip the olive. When refilling, fill as much as you can through the top cover filler plug them through the hole in the outer tube about 9” up from where you are looking. Refit both screwed plug and rubber bung. You must fill up to the casing tube hole or the upper bearing race that supports the steering worm is not submerged in oil. Peter W Edited May 14, 2021 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Owen Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 13 hours ago, John McCormack said: As far as I know from rebuilding two steering boxes, the only way to get the dregs of oil/grease out are to take the end plate off and remove it there. 1 hour ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Agreed. Slack the 4 bolts off that hold the end plate in place by 1 full turn so the oil can dribble out. Leave overnight. Do not remove endplate or be tempted to wriggle it about unless you have a spare gasket to hand. The oil should dribble through the gap between end plate, shims and housing……slowly. Slacking the brass nut will also let out oil but needs a second person to hold the horn push in place when re tightening. The stator tube tends to rotate as you tighten the brass nut to nip the olive. When refilling, fill as much as you can through the top cover filler plug them through the hole in the outer tube about 9” up from where you are looking. Refit both screwed plug and rubber bung. You must fill up to the casing tube hole or the upper bearing race that supports the steering worm is not submerged in oil. Peter W Thank you both. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 Isn’t this an opportunity to adjust the shims to take out any up and down play - if there is any? The workshop manual explains what to do. Not a difficult job. james Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 2 hours ago, james christie said: Isn’t this an opportunity to adjust the shims to take out any up and down play - if there is any? The workshop manual explains what to do. Not a difficult job. james Yes Although measuring the end float is not the easiest thing to do. The end float of the worm in the casing is the first port of call. The up/down adjustment of the lever and peg in the worm is second to get the high spot at the centre of the steering movement. Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Owen Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 Draining and filling is what is going to happen. Two things I will not touch at this point are steering and brakes. Maybe when I have a 3 year old mechanical brain. RIght now I am looking forward to my first birthday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Owen Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 9 hours ago, james christie said: Isn’t this an opportunity to adjust the shims to take out any up and down play - if there is any? The workshop manual explains what to do. Not a difficult job. james So I looked through the service instruction manual, after a couple of glasses of wine built up my courage (stupidity), and couldn't find anything on the steering box. Then I reread this, what is the "Workshop Manual"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 What!, you mean you don`t already have one? Essential bedtime reading. Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 Feeling in a generous, helpful mood this morning. Here's a copy of the relevant page in the Workshop Manual - you must beg, buy , borrow or steal a copy james Steering Box.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 (edited) This is your first point of reference for literature It is worth browsing to be amazed what accumulated knowledge is there. Here is the full wsm in 5 downloadable bits See part 3 page 230 onwards for steering and suspension http://tr4a.weebly.com/triumph-tr-pdf-downloads.html Edited May 15, 2021 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Owen Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said: What!, you mean you don`t already have one? Essential bedtime reading. Ralph 2 hours ago, james christie said: Feeling in a generous, helpful mood this morning. Here's a copy of the relevant page in the Workshop Manual - you must beg, buy , borrow or steal a copy james Steering Box.pdf 1.1 MB · 7 downloads 2 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: This is your first point of reference for literature It is worth browsing to be amazed what accumulated knowledge is there. Here is the full wsm in 5 downloadable bits See part 3 page 230 onwards for steering and suspension http://tr4a.weebly.com/triumph-tr-pdf-downloads.html Thank you very much. I really do appreciate all the help. I do have a the manual James is referring to, I thought "workshop manual" was something else. But like all manuals, the one I have assumes someone well versed in the appropriate jargon is reading it. Which is why I will not touch the steering box at this point in time. For instance, and I am not looking for an explanation, "while a slight amount of pre-load is permissible, in no circumstances must there be any end float" means absolutely nothing to me. My view on that is that it is a third year TR3 Uni course. I will get there, but not yet. I have already taken on enough for year one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 It means when tightening the end plate bolts you are gradually reducing the clearance around the top & bottom ball races (bearings) once all the clearance has been used up, further tightening will start to "preload" the bearings. there are shims of steel between the end plate & the body, which are selected so that when the bolts securing the end plate are fully tightened the bearings have a slight pressure on them. Too many shims & there is no pressure, but the possibility of "end float" which is when the steering shaft inner shaft can be moved up & down a small amount, would result in sloppy steering. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Owen Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Lebro said: It means when tightening the end plate bolts you are gradually reducing the clearance around the top & bottom ball races (bearings) once all the clearance has been used up, further tightening will start to "preload" the bearings. there are shims of steel between the end plate & the body, which are selected so that when the bolts securing the end plate are fully tightened the bearings have a slight pressure on them. Too many shims & there is no pressure, but the possibility of "end float" which is when the steering shaft inner shaft can be moved up & down a small amount, would result in sloppy steering. Bob. Thanks Bob. So the shims are specific to the steering box and guarantee appropriate clearance? I should mention that the only reason I am putting the semi-fluid grease into the steering box is that when I was replacing the control head and wiring I managed to pull the stator tube out far enough that all the oil drained out. Edited May 15, 2021 by David Owen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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