Early TR2 water pump to bottom hose

[roger murray-evans]

Does anyone have any details of the dimensions of this item,

fitted to TS1-TS413 under part #201795.It's the predecessor to

the slightly kinked steel pipe connecting the water pump to the

bottom hose on the radiator fitted to all sidescreen TRs, TS414

onwards (p/n 108423).The early item has straight rubber hose

connections,the bends being formed as part of the  steel pipe.

Perhaps the TRR has a pattern?

Roger M-E

[RogerH]

Hi Roger

some things were carried over from the Vanguard. Have you checked there.

What about the petrol TRactor TE20.

 

Roger

[roger murray-evans]

Hi Roger!

Good suggestions Roger, and I do have a Phase 1 Vanguard and ST parts book,

and did a google of TE20 retailers but both use a long rubber pipe for the

connection.I presume the TR item it was discontinued on a cost basis as

easier to mmake a nearly straight steel pipe and 2 bent rubber pipes than a

steel pipe bent in 2 planes and straight rubber?

I do have an idea as to what it should look like, (same profile as the later set up with

both bent rubber pipes attached) but I'm hoping a survivor lurks out there

to be duplicated exactly as per.Can't imagine many still in use somehow, so maybe

a future project.The TR2 Survivors list shows a potential circa 100 cars still in existance,

within that Commission number spread so could be a very small lurking need.

Roger

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by roger murray-evans
Added details

[ianc]

I have forwarded your query to Ian Gibson, who seems to either own or have owned most ST products, and has a huge collection of documents.

Ian Cornish

[james christie]

I’d be a bit wary of using unused old stock rubber parts, even for purposes of authenticity. Rubber has a limited shelf life, whether its hoses or tyres

james

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

I have never seen one, but we did have samples of the straight rubber hoses at C&B.

Lateral thinking here.

Fit engine and radiator.

Install the later two curved hoses with the link tube between and clamp all up nice and tight.

Take the assembly to an exhaust pipe bender and ask them to reproduce it exactly in the right sized metal tube.  

Cut off the short sections each end you do not want and fit straight rubber hoses to connect to radiator.

Might work.

Peter W

[ianc]

Response from Ian Gibson:

Quite early on both the steel pipe and the two hoses with identical part numbers were listed in the "Old World Supersessions List" as replaced by the two identical bent hoses (108422) and the pretty straight  steel pipe we know (108423).  Although those entries do not make it clear that you'd have to substitute all three parts at the same time!!

I think it rather doubtful if I have an example of 201795 but the only place it might be (if I do have one) is in a large box of early NOS parts in the loft.  There should be a full list in the box so I'll have a look after Xmas.

I'm sure that pipe will have the same bore as the later one 'cos it has to match the water pump housing which never changed.

I'll ask my USA contacts if anyone out there still has an original pipe (though being mild steel then survival to 2020 looks unlikely to me!!).  It'll give them something to think about over Christmas!!

[stuart]

Has Pascal that owns TS11 in Paris got the correct one fitted, if so maybe he could photograph what you need if anyone has contact details for him?

Stuart.

[roger murray-evans]

1 hour ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

I have never seen one, but we did have samples of the straight rubber hoses at C&B.

Lateral thinking here.

Fit engine and radiator.

Install the later two curved hoses with the link tube between and clamp all up nice and tight.

Take the assembly to an exhaust pipe bender and ask them to reproduce it exactly in the right sized metal tube.  

Cut off the short sections each end you do not want and fit straight rubber hoses to connect to radiator.

Might work.

Peter W

Hi Pete,

Yes, that was always going to be the default should an original not be available.

I've got Fastroad in Ashford in sight should a pattern not be available.In that

eventuality I will take the car there sans front apron and have it made to fit the

car to be sure, to be sure!

Roger M-E

 

[Ian Vincent]

9 minutes ago, stuart said:

Has Pascal that owns TS11 in Paris got the correct one fitted, if so maybe he could photograph what you need if anyone has contact details for him?

Stuart.

And on the same theme, Vincent Paccellieri, who has a 1953 TR2, participated in the LBL Rally last year.  I have his contact details (mobile number) if it is any help.

Rgds Ian

[roger murray-evans]

1 hour ago, ianc said:

Response from Ian Gibson:

Quite early on both the steel pipe and the two hoses with identical part numbers were listed in the "Old World Supersessions List" as replaced by the two identical bent hoses (108422) and the pretty straight  steel pipe we know (108423).  Although those entries do not make it clear that you'd have to substitute all three parts at the same time!!

I think it rather doubtful if I have an example of 201795 but the only place it might be (if I do have one) is in a large box of early NOS parts in the loft.  There should be a full list in the box so I'll have a look after Xmas.

I'm sure that pipe will have the same bore as the later one 'cos it has to match the water pump housing which never changed.

I'll ask my USA contacts if anyone out there still has an original pipe (though being mild steel then survival to 2020 looks unlikely to me!!).  It'll give them something to think about over Christmas!!

Thanks for doing that Ian and hope Ian G has something for the New Year!

Best wishes

Roger M-E

[roger murray-evans]

3 hours ago, james christie said:

I’d be a bit wary of using unused old stock rubber parts, even for purposes of authenticity. Rubber has a limited shelf life, whether its hoses or tyres

james

James, thanks for your interest, but in this particular case, the rubber hoses are/will be

fresh made of normal straight pipes.

Roger M-E

 

[roger murray-evans]

8 minutes ago, Ian Vincent said:

And on the same theme, Vincent Paccellieri, who has a 1953 TR2, participated in the LBL Rally last year.  I have his contact details (mobile number) if it is any help.

Rgds Ian

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the input and I'll get in touch for the contact details after exhausting the

current leads. It's a fact that every TR2 made in 1953 would have/should have the 

early pipe and a few in January 1954 too.

Means there could be a meaningful market for every surviving TR2 before

TS413 except TS1LO which does seem to have a pipe of the correct configuration as shown in the

restoration booklet.

 

Roger M-E

[stuart]

17 hours ago, roger murray-evans said:

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the input and I'll get in touch for the contact details after exhausting the

current leads. It's a fact that every TR2 made in 1953 would have/should have the 

early pipe and a few in January 1954 too.

Means there could be a meaningful market for every surviving TR2 before

TS413 except TS1LO which does seem to have a pipe of the correct configuration as shown in the

restoration booklet.

 

Roger M-E

TS2 will need one.

Stuart.

[roger murray-evans]

Yes, I think you may be right Stuart.

I seem to remember someone saying that the early thermostat housing

had been removed as well?

Roger M-E

 

[stuart]

40 minutes ago, roger murray-evans said:

Yes, I think you may be right Stuart.

I seem to remember someone saying that the early thermostat housing

had been removed as well?

Roger M-E

 

I dont know if it has one of the new double castings now but when it was at my place a few years ago it didnt.

Stuart.

 

[roger murray-evans]

Nice detailed photos Stuart.You would have to ask if it still doesn't have

the correct thermostat housing, why not?

Roger M-E

[stuart]

13 hours ago, roger murray-evans said:

Nice detailed photos Stuart.You would have to ask if it still doesn't have

the correct thermostat housing, why not?

Roger M-E

Dont you need the early centre outlet rad to go with the early thermo housing? Theyre rare too.

Stuart.

[ianc]

Stuart is correct - a radiator with centre inlet (at top) is required with the very early TR2 thermostat housing - as organised by the TR Spares Development Fund and available now from Pete Cox Sportscars (PCS).

When, some 6 or 7 years ago, I was checking on the SDF's stock of spares (Alannid's Cave) when held at in cupboards at Didcot, I seem to recollect that there was an original of the early thermostat amongst the items held, in separate but adjacent cabinets, as spares for TS2 - and that thermostat was in a pretty tatty state.

If the TR Register, or the Trustees of TS2 (who own the car - it doesn't belong to the TR Register, despite the impression given by the club), wished to fit an original type of thermostat housing but were unable to find the one amongst their spares, they could purchase a reproduction from PCS and have a radiator made to match.

Incidentally, the reason that the SDF removed Alannid's Cave from Didcot was that I found on a visit about 4 years ago that the three cupboards, which were always locked when Allen Forster was the club's General Manager, had been unlocked and the keys could not be found anywhere in the building.  As a temporary measure, I bought and fitted hasps, staples and padlocks to the cabinets used by the SDF, and arranged, with Ian Brown, removal of Alannid's Cave to a secure location elsewhere.  At the time of my visit, the cabinets containing TS2's spares were locked - but those keys also could not be found!

Ian Cornish

Edited December 21, 2020 by ianc

[roger murray-evans]

Regarding the early type radiator top pipe, it is very easy to move the pipe over to line

up with the double thermostat housing pipe of course.This it what I've done in order to sort the

immediate problem, but it's a bit of a niggle and I'm hoping patience (not an attribute I'm

blessed with unfortunately) will turn up an early rad. If not, I have a access to a talented

tin (and brass) basher who can make a proper job of the header tank. Again, really needed is

exact details to get it right.

Re TS2.We may all get the opportunity to see the current level of originality, at least as far as spec

is concerned when it does it's, hoped for 'big' tour, next year. I can't see why it shouldn't be presented

as original as possible.Otherwise, any TR2 would do the job?  

Ian, regarding Alannids Cave parts, is there/was there an written inventory available to poke through?

It would be rather interesting to see just what lurks within.

 

Roger M-E

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by roger murray-evans
attach photo

[ianc]

Roger M-E: see section entitled "About the SDF" in the SDF's website (trsdf.uk).  That should answer your questions!

Ian Cornish

[roger murray-evans]

43 minutes ago, ianc said:

Roger M-E: see section entitled "About the SDF" in the SDF's website (trsdf.uk).  That should answer your questions!

Ian Cornish

Thanks Ian,

You were right.They did!

 

Roger M-E

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

1 hour ago, roger murray-evans said:

Thanks Ian,

You were right.They did!

 

Roger M-E

Note the straight upper bottom hose in the first photo.  I think this is TS1

Thread drift.

When did the extension header tank from the radiator get added?

C&B had the radiator for Graham Hallet (Jabbeke car) re-cored and that looked like a late TR4 without filler cap.  It sat on the radiator shelf for years at Harberson Road awaiting collection and payment by its owner.

Cheers

Peter W

Edited December 21, 2020 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[2long]

Here is the center outlet rad and the more common double thermostat housing from TS 1109E   Good old Rod Brisby brought this item back from the dead for me using JB Weld!

Dan

Edited December 21, 2020 by 2long

[Lebro]