Crankshaft End Float

[c.hydes]

Measured this today as best I can with DTI on front of crankshaft pulley. Very diffucult to find somewhere to place the magnetic clamp and get it parallel. By levering back and forward come to the conclusion that its approx. 0.3 mm. However if you put slightly more of a gently "pull or push" with the lever it does increase.

So if 0.3 mm (if this is a correct reading), should i be concerned?

and, should I be measuring with the pull/push lever under slight pressure?

Colin.

[Z320]

Hi, your magnetic clamp is on the engine?

Not on the cars frame or body?

[Nigel Triumph]

Maximum end float is 7 thou, or 0.18mm. At 0.3mm (assuming the DTI is clamped to the engine), that is obviously out of specification but not disastrously so.

If the end float gets any worse, I would fit new thrust washers, which can be done engine in situ by removing the sump and the rear main bearing cap. It's a fiddly job though.

Nigel

[c.hydes]

Thanks, but no not clamped to the engine. The only place I can find to attach and get to the front is to attach the magnetic clamp is to the offside radiator stay. I must say it did change readings when I was leaning on the top hose, so guess I could have duff readings and not accurate enough !!

Perhaps I need to experiment more to find a better position to be sure? any other suggestions on how to measure?

Colin.

[Steves_TR6]

Its been a while but i’m pretty sure i mounted the magnet on the side of the block, below no1 exhaust, and adjusted the ball joints to ‘reach around’ to the pulley.

was able to get quite good reading repeatability

steve

Ps, very bad photo attached!

Edited April 13, 2020 by Steves_TR6

[Z320]

I do it with the magnet on the timing chain cover, it must be on the engine.

[Waldi]

I agree with Marco. Ignore your earlier measurement. My engine was out of the car, so then it is easy.

Waldi

[brenda]

Morning if you have a look on YouTube  there are quite a lot on thrust washers, Steve Denton from one of the groups has done a video that is quite good.

Mike Redrose Group 

[c.hydes]

Thanks all for the replies. My DTI is an axial gauge so I have been trying to get the magnet and swivel arms assemblies so that the DTI is in line at the front to get a good linear measurement. As there is no suitable places I ended up only with the radiator support bracket, which we all agree is a bit "iffy".

Now then, Steve`s photograph above got me thinking, as he seems to be measuring behind the timing disk with the DTI sideways on. Looking in my DTI box I have discovered a clamp/clasp arm that seems to fit on the opposite end of the DTI that lifts the gauge in a sideways direction. This may be easier for me on the assumption that it would be accurate.

Are my assumptions correct about the clamp arm and accuracy?

Cheers, Colin.

[Z320]

Hi Colin,

what ever you do make shure you only measure the movement of the crankshaft in the engine

without the movement of the engine and gearbox in the rubber montings.

That's what you described with your first post.

Ciao, Marco

[Waldi]

Colin, the gage Steve shows probably has a lateral (sideward) measuring direction. The typical DTI can only measure “in-line”.

Waldi

[c.hydes]

Thanks Waldi, yes I found this sideways attachment in my DTI case and have now used it as Steve shows in his photo attached solidly to the engine block.

Anyways now measured endfloat 10 times. Results are: min =0.23 mm,  max = 0.26 mm, average = 0.244 mm.

Guess my final questions are, if the brown book says maximum play is 0.2032 mm and I have 0.244 mm what do you experts suggest, should I be worried? Also at what gap do the washers fall out and then do real damage to the block etc? I do quite low mileage, so am I OK for say another 5000 miles?

Cheers, Colin. 

[Waldi]

Hi Colin, 

the total clearance is now confirmed with 0.24 mm, just outside the WSM recommended maximum value.  It is a good practice like you did to have several measurements and check they are not to much alternating (which would indicate the DTI set-up is not correct) The shims are much thicker, so should not have to come out within 5000 miles if the wear was developed over many thousands of miles.

For belts and braces you can check after say 2 thousand miles, to see if and by how much it has increased. 
For the new shims, you should target for the minimum indicated clearance in the WSM.

Hope this clarifies it.

Cheers,

Waldi

[c.hydes]

2 minutes ago, Waldi said:

Hi Colin, 

the total clearance is now confirmed with 0.24 mm, just outside the WSM recommended maximum value.  It is a good practice like you did to have several measurements and check they are not to much alternating (which would indicate the DTI set-up is not correct) The shims are much thicker, so should not have to come out within 5000 miles if the wear was developed over many thousands of miles.

For belts and braces you can check after say 2 thousand miles, to see if and by how much it has increased. 
For the new shims, you should target for the minimum indicated clearance in the WSM.

Hope this clarifies it.

Cheers,

Waldi

Yes thanks it does clarify all Waldi, and a very sensible suggestion to check it regularly and at  +1000 miles.

Thanks to all who helped, I now know all about endfloat !! Keep safe everyone, best regards, Colin.

[Z320]

Hi Colin, 

I own a 4A, the workshop manual tells 0.1016 - 0.1524 is good, 0.381 is worn.

My crancshaft moves 0.17 mm since years, I check this perhaps every 2 years and it does not change.

In your case I would drive the car and check it after 500 miles, than 1,000 miles.

Ciao, Marco

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Z320

[c.hydes]

OK thanks Marco, yes I would have checked @ 500 miles to see where it has increased.

So are you saying that yours is max 0.1524 mm and should be replaced at 0.381 mm, but yours increases 0.17 mm every year

If this is true how many miles do you do each year, and what gap should I replace mine ?

Colin.

 

[Z320]

Hi Colin,

the german TR4 workshop manual tells:

- desirable  0.1016 - 0.1524 mm

- new 0.12192 - 0,28118 mm

- worn 0.381 mm

The play on my TR is always 0.17 mm, no change the last 10 years / 32,000 miles

I don't know what the TR6 manual tells, with 0.244 mm on my TR4A I would do nothing as long it does not get worst.

Ciao, Marco

[c.hydes]

Thanks for that, I`ll see if I can find some information on the TR6 crankshaft maximum endfloat dimension when you must replace the shims.

Ciao.

[stuart]

4 cylinder cars dont suffer so much with worn thrust washers anywhere near as bad as the sixes, you can mitigate the wear a bit by not sitting with the clutch depressed for any longer than necessary.

Stuart.

[c.hydes]

21 minutes ago, stuart said:

4 cylinder cars dont suffer so much with worn thrust washers anywhere near as bad as the sixes, you can mitigate the wear a bit by not sitting with the clutch depressed for any longer than necessary.

Stuart.

Stuart do you have a figure for the TR6 that would be "the limit value" with all your restoration experience?

Colin.

[Paul J]

My Triumph manual published by British Leyland states TR5, TR250 and TR6 Crankshaft end float is 0.15 to 0.20 mm, or 0.006 to 0.008" inch.

Paul

[Mk2 Chopper]

The figures stated are when you set up a new set, as they are prone to wear usually they will open up more, at what point they would be at risk of dropping out is probably not an exact amount. 

Mine were in tact and the end float had reached .015" which in metric is 0.381mm. So based on that yours seems to be much closer to tolerance, and would be fine if you keep an eye on it and as advised not sit with your foot depressing the clutch. When you come to do an oil change, think about being ready to do this job, it's pretty easy. 

Gareth

[c.hydes]

OK Gareth, thanks and understood. My only reservation of dropping the sump when the need arises, is getting the bloody thing to seal again as it does have some leakage at present. Not enough to be of concern however according to my last MOT inspection 6 months ago.

No doubt there is a thread on the forum somewhere that explains how to do it?

Cheers, Colin.

[Mk2 Chopper]

I used something called Wellseal for the sump, seems to have sealed it nicely. 

What I did was buy two new standard sized ones and fit those to determine the wear on the crank, ended up using one oversized to take up the slack.

Plenty of help on here, but when I searched through there was a lot of confusion on the subject as well as correct information, probably best to start a new thread when you come to do it. 

Gareth

 

[c.hydes]

Cheers again Gareth.

C/