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rear oil seal

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hi I have removed engine on my tr4a today to replace oil seal with a modified oil seal but after removing flywheel I have found the scroll seal is bone dry no oil leaking at all found oil is leaking from core plug in back of engine so advice please do I continue to remove crankshaft and replace with modified seal or just replace core plug save me stripping all  the main bearings and big ends and front timing chain cover as engine has done less than 5,000 miles since full rebuild iv tried to upload photos of scroll seal and leaking core plug but I think file is to big 

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I would not touch the original seal if its bone dry, don't think any of the replacements

are that in practice!

Switch the core plug and put it back in the car - job done.

john.

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hi all just managed to upload photos the seal fitted is stamped A 34 and I think is a standard scroll seal cant see a viton seal behind flange and you can see core plug is leaking and if I shine a light up behind crankshaft flange it is bone dry no oil at all 

IMG_4402.jpg

IMG_4403.jpg

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Dave,

I don't know, but by extrapolation from the six cylinder engine, that core plug seals the rear of the camshaft bore, enclosing the rear bearing.    So unlike the other core plugs, that retain the water jacket, your leak cannot be due to corrosion, but a poor seal on the perimeter of the plug.       It looks like a 'saucer' type plug, which has less seal area than a cup type plug.

So the answer is, Do you feel lucky, punk?    Do you risk taking the old seal out , cleaning up - the cam shaft would have to come out to ensure a clean edge to the hole - and putting in a new one?      Can this engine take a cup type seal in the position?

You need one better informed on four cylinder engines than I am, or a fortune teller!

JOhn

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Take it out, clean the area where it sits and fit a new one with a smear of hylomar around the edge (Just a smear BTW)

Stuart.

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Probably totally wrong but I can't help feel a little sceptical about that core plug being the source of that oil, a leaking crank seal seldom demonstrates an obvious leak as it has been chucked out around the edge of the bellhousing by the centifugal force while the engine is running, it often forms as a light mist that then accumlates on the horizontal surfaces until there is enough for gravity to do it's business.

If you look at the top section of the domed core plug theres a lot of oil deposit there as well, which is more indicative to me of being deposited by air borne oil...what are the other webs like on the back of the block - are they all wet as well? & what does the inside (top) of the bell housing look like?

Like I say I could be wrong but it would be a pain to replace the core plug & zip it all back together only to have to do it all again...

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I think I am siding with Chilliman here.

There is oil deposit everywhere. If it was a core plug leak it would simply run down..

That fact that it is accumulating on the 6-o-clock position of the core plug is not indicative of a leak there.

However it is easy to change and refit a new plug. The camshaft does not need removing.

Whilst the engine is out it would not be impossible to remove the scroll seal and fit the Chris Marx lip seal.  Worth considering.

 

Roger

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Take the rocker cover off and look at the state and position of its gasket, particularly at the back.  

Not uncommon for the thing to shrink in service and cause a leak down the back of the engine that you think is the rear crank oil seal...how do I know?

If you have the Mad Marx oil seal and a mandrel and you feel inclined, get on and do that job.  It does mean crank out so you will be looking at the timing chain and tensioner.  Be sure the timing is marked and you can replicate the position of chain crank and cam wheel before stripping.  Note : The flywheel may have TDC marked on it as an additional help.

As Stuart says remove the cam core plug and renew with the lightest of smears of sealant.  Lock the plug in by hammering the domed surface as near flat as you dare.  It looks as though the one in your photo was not flattened.

Cheers

Peter W

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT

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Don't forget that the 'saucer' type of core plug needs to be fitted with a blunt round drift to the centre to 'flatten' it against the engine block.

Don't forget to apply a good sealant around the rim of the core plug first.

I don't think you can fit a 'cup' type core plug because the core plug fits into a shallow groove in the block.

Tom.

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hi all thanks for all the responses the oil is running down the back of engine on core plug side only other side and all around scroll seal and crankshaft flange is dry iv even wiped a cotton bud between seal and crank flange and it was dry and the back of the flywheel is clean and dry what looks like drips on scroll seal bolts is gasket seal I will wait till new coreplug arrives then make a decision about the modified seal  which I have and iv borrowed a mandrel of john Morrison from Cumbria  it just seems a lot of messing about removing crank shaft I have also replace timing chain and tensioner when I replaced front oil seal which had a slight leak 

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I think in that case you are as well to follows Stuart post above - just be careful removing the old one & clean the recess thorougly - use some sealant of choice and as has already been said make sure you give the the domed section (centre) of the core plug & good smack with a nice large drift or similar which will push it outwards & seal well...if it is the core plug that's causing the problem then I would consider that a nice easy fix compared to pulling the whole engine apart...:) 

....& apart from anything else if you have got a leak fee rear seal on the crank I really wouldn't want to mess with it...they're pretty rare!

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thanks for replies as you can see in photo scroll seal looks like it was replaced when engine was rebuilt and did not want to disturb it as it looks to be  sealing well iv been chasing oil leaks since I bought the car iv replaced seals in axle and rear gearbox and have cured most of them but it is a triumph so it has to leak somewhere 

 

 

 

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hi all I have just tried tapping core plug with a sharp punch and it turns quite easy in block and does not look flat its quite curved so it might not have been fitted properly I will wait till new one comes before I remove old on 

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Roger opined that it would not be necessary to remove the camshaft to replace that core plug, and he is of course correct, it is not necessary.

But it will be necessary for the plug to be installed into a clean and oil-free recess, which I think might be difficult to do, as oil will seep from the bearing.    Can you turn the engine on it's nose so the oil seeps away from the plug joint, so you can properly clean it?

John

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Hi John,

it should be possible to clean the area *aerosol brake cleaner'     gently, apply the sealant and get the plug in there before it is contaminated with oil.

 

Roger  

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