adriantr4 Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 Hello This is a post after a very l o n g interval ... My TR4 hasnt run for many a year and is in poor condition now, but I need to do a bit of maintenance on it. I decided to empty the fuel tank, so I disconnected the rubber pipe at the fuel pump input. In a past life, whenever I did this I always had a pencil ready to plug the pipe as the fuel escaped. This time - no fuel emerged, but there is a little in the tank. I put a dash of new fuel in the tank too, in the hope it might be enough to see a drip. I tried to blow into the tank, but this wasnt a success as I cant get a seal. I tried to pump it up with the fuel pump primer (I have a bitsa made of TR3A & 4 parts) but could not detect a suction. My questions: (1) If a TR4 is level & the pipe disconnected as above with a pint (or less?) in the tank, would you expect a flow? (2) Can fuel pump suction be detected by a finger over the end of the inlet pipe? I've supected the pump to be failing for a long time. My guess is "yes" to both. I seem to vaguely recall being told that TR4's were prone to fires due to the rubber pipe falling off & the tank emptying? My '4 has form with fuel problems. When I first got it, sometime in the last ice age, the fuel flow would randomly stop. This was traced to the cheapo paint job which was flashed over the open the fuel filler (!). During each fill-up flakes of paint would be scraped off the filler pipe, which led to, etc, etc. All suggestions gratefully received ... Thanks Adrian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 (edited) Check connector no.36 along the chassis it should be a brass connector on my 3a it was a rubber pipe that was start starting to close up if you have a 12v tyre pump/inflator try blowing back to the tank from the feed side pipe of the pump to confirm blockage (hi pressure build up) or clear blockage when the hi pressure drops as the blockage is cleared Edited September 22, 2019 by Hamish Pic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcreweread Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 Adrian - I would have expected some fuel to come out of the tank on the level, but a pint really isn't very much - you could try putting in a bit more fuel to test it further, or jack the car up to see - have you tried looking inside the tank to see what the internal condition is like notwithstanding you say you have had some prior issues with debris in the tank? The AC Delco original pump is a "sucker", hence why it is located at the other end of the car from the tank, so that suction should be observable . When you say " Can fuel pump suction be detected by a finger over the end of the inlet pipe" - can you clarify what you mean by "the end of the inlet pipe" - if you mean the end closest to the tank, then check that any rubber connections in the pipe are all sound first - I would take the inlet pipe off the pump and test firstly if you can feel any suction on the pump, and if you can, then work your way down the inlet pipe. I may be able to help with a spare Dave Davies reconditioned fuel pump - have sent you a PM ( personal message - see top RH corner of page with an envelope icon and click on it ) Cheers Rich Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Back in the day I could pull a car out of years of storage and it would start up with fresh battery. With modern fuels even one year of storage and there is a lot of corrosion...metal fuel lines furred-up, brass carb parts green with corrosion, sender units knackered. I would go through the whole supply line, new rubber, rod-out the hard lines..check the carb float bowls, jets and needles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
adriantr4 Posted September 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2019 Many thanks to the responders. I like the "pump air back up the line" idea. I'll let you know how I get on (prepare for big pause) regards, Adrian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 If there is sufficient muck bunging up the outlet, then, if it is cleared by blowing back into the tank (as suggested by Hamish), what will happen thereafter? As soon as clean fuel is poured into the tank and the engine started, this muck will start to be transported through the fuel pipe to the pump's glass bowl, so keep a very close watch on the bowl and empty it as often as necessary - if you don't, the muck will be drawn upwards and block the gauze filter which sits between the bowl and its mounting. If the inside of the fuel tank is shedding fine particles of rust, then the only real answer (short of tank replacement) is Sloshing - see my article in Section K3 of the Technicalities CD (but be aware that treatment is now a 3-part process). I sloshed my tank some 22 years ago and, so far, no recurrence of problems, despite changes to fuel formulation (I was using leaded fuel back then). Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ocheye Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 5 hours ago, ianc said: If there is sufficient muck bunging up the outlet, then, if it is cleared by blowing back into the tank (as suggested by Hamish), what will happen thereafter? As soon as clean fuel is poured into the tank and the engine started, this muck will start to be transported through the fuel pipe to the pump's glass bowl, so keep a very close watch on the bowl and empty it as often as necessary - if you don't, the muck will be drawn upwards and block the gauze filter which sits between the bowl and its mounting. If the inside of the fuel tank is shedding fine particles of rust, then the only real answer (short of tank replacement) is Sloshing - see my article in Section K3 of the Technicalities CD (but be aware that treatment is now a 3-part process). I sloshed my tank some 22 years ago and, so far, no recurrence of problems, despite changes to fuel formulation (I was using leaded fuel back then). Ian Cornish I have sloshed the 92 year old tank in my Morris Cowley to great effect and (so far) doesn't appear to be affected by ethanol. I got my sloshing kit from Rustbuster who were very helpful Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 My blow back test is more of a diagnostic than a cure. Done in the paddock between sprint runs in the club champs. It fixed it that day. But as I said above the problem was an old rubber connector pipe in the fuel line. As I knew my tank was good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
adriantr4 Posted July 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 Hello - again I've moved on from my clutch/drive issues & am back on the No Fuel Flow (TR4). I should say that there is ancient history here - debris in the tank, so I decided to go for the 100% approach & pull out the tank & attempt to flush it, then address the blocked fuel line issue. I also did this 20 years ago .... I had the usual struggle: the fuel pipe at the tank end would not undo & I could see the mount point moving so I decide to cut the line. Whilst sawing through the metal line with a metal hacksaw I decided it was risky, plus a bit of the negligible amount of remaing fuel started to drip on me as I lay on my back - bang? I then poured some cheap 20W oil into the tank to flush out what remained. Anyhow, I cut throught the pipe withut injuring myself & eventually got the tank out. With it upside down on the bench, I can see the that the fitting is loose (see photo). What options do I have to braze the tank (I'm sure this is an old question - I did briefly check past articles but didnt find anything). ? Step 1 - flush tank with hot soapy water? ? Step 2 - flush again ? ? And again? ? Ok to braze ? Or .....? Options/Suggestions please? Thanks, Adrian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 I suggest your 1,2,3,4 is OK...then stuff the vacuum cleaner nozzle inside the tank and run the vacuum whilst you braise...that'll prevent any build-up of vapours from the tank or gasses from the welding that could cause the tank to go bang. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Old army trick to weld a tank was to put it on a vertical tractor exhaust for about 20mins, do the job and swill with petrol. Course I've never done it, but seems to have a logic, swop the fumes that will explode for ones that will not. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Using a vacuum cleaner on a petrol tank is a very bad idea. any remaining fumes will pass through the cleaner up to where the motor is, & then get ignited by the sparks around the brushes - load bang - no more vacuum cleaner ! Unless you can use the outlet side of it,which you can with most drum types. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Hi Adrian, flush once with soapy water If you have an air compressor then give it a 15/20 minute blast if you have a mig welder then fill with CO2. I would use 'Silver' Solder rather than braze. You could surround the hot area with some of the 'stuff' that stops the spread of heat around a weld site. Once fitted - bock the outlet and leak test - I would use red 'dye pen' from the inside. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
adriantr4 Posted July 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Many, many thanks to all - I might well give the Brazing a go [or my Tech teacher friend might be persuaded ....] (and I'll blow throught the fuel line to clear the blockage with a a pump). All safety tips noted and taken on-board. Thanks! fyi +Plus side: - the tank is actually in good shape - Ex US car, reimported by me in prior to last ice age. -Minus Side: car needs full resto. But basically ok. There will now be another p a u s e .... Adrian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 +1 for silver solder, less heat, & pretty much as strong. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
adriantr4 Posted August 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2020 (edited) Postscript: Thanks to all, all comments noted. To my suprise I was able to blow through the disconnected fuel line (was presenting as blocked last year)? The "rubber" connections are quite hard (ie: old) so maybe they collapsed internally when the pump sucked? I dont really believe this either. I pumped some oil through, no Gunge emerged, bar some specks of tank debris. Its a puzzle. I'll replace the flexible connections. In other news - - - No-Brakes investigations tomorrow - hmmm: that drum seems very wet .... regards, Adrian Edited August 1, 2020 by adriantr4 test Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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