Riche Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) I have recently started to have an issue with starting my car (1970 TR6 Pi). It takes a lot of turning the engine over before it will start. I have listed below some clues which may help you help me (I hope!) 1. It does not flood so no smell of petrol. 2. When it does start, I take it out of the garage and it leaves a small trail of oil (engine I think, and no smell of petrol) 3. I then leave the car standing a few minutes to warm up and it leaves a patch of oil on the tarmac. 4. Then after I have taking it for a run and return, it does not leave a patch of oil as in number 3. 5. Not loosing oil (saying that, I would say it is normal amount that I top up periodically This has just started in the last month or so. Has anyone any ideas or suggestions that I can start to diagnose what is happening. Edited August 6, 2019 by Riche Added photo of oil patch for number 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 Riche, Welcome to the forum re starting . Check the points gap...starting can gradually get worse. re oil.....welcome to this gem of TR lore: https://www.snic-braaapp.com/spinaltappets/Tappetstry/Spinal Tappets - While My TR Gently Leaks.mp3 Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
c.hydes Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 Hi Riche, welcome to the forum, I have starting problems if my 1974 PI has been left for some months, and then have to bleed no 2 injector as it always seems to have air trapped in the line from the MU. Soon sorted though. Regarding dropped oil, yes, I have this at the front, (think it`s a small leak from the timing chain cover, also at the gearbox, and also at the rear differential). Its not much, just part of owing a 45 year old car? Just check the oil levels regularly, especially the rear axle, as it doesn`t have a large capacity, so can soon run dry, and if it does you could be in to damage. !! Regards, Colin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel Triumph Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 Hi Riche, Welcome! The oil leak almost certainly has nothing to do with the starting problem. My advice would be to deal with the leak later. With difficulty starting, the first question is fuel or spark. I find it's easiest to check for sparks first. Carrying out the usual test with plugs removed and laying on the cylinder head while cranking the engine will show if there's a spark. If there's a strong spark then suspect a fuel problem. Lucas PI is quite different to carbs or modern EFi, so if your starting problem isn't ignition and looks like fuel, ask here and there will be lots of friendly advice. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
c.hydes Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 Agree with Nigel, forget the small oil leaks and concentrate of why the car wont fire up. C/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) Riche, My experience with my PI would suggest a minimal approach to help identify a problem. As Nigel above oil leak is unlikely to be related. Leave car for a few days without starting as when you are getting problems, remove injectors but leave plumbed in, disconnect ignition coil supply ( H&S) Have second person crank engine whilst you hold the injectors over a container and watch the injector spray (or not) If spray is good after ten seconds cranking then it will likely be ignition related, refit injectors if good spray. Check with a timing light on each of the plug leads whilst cranking - a flash will show ignition Ok. If Fuel related First connect a battery charger and leave on 24 hours and leave connected. Try and start the car. - Battery looses voltage as it ages, perhaps down a volt or so, whilst cranking even lower voltage and the pump cannot deliver full pressure with a low voltage a connected battery charger helps identify the problem by providing a higher voltage for the pump. No difference with battery charger and still poor starting and no spray from injectors then suspect the lines from metering unit to injectors are draining down and needs lots of cranking to refill and start spraying into the cylinders, if the car was good previously and there has been no work on the system then start the car and then kill the engine, remove the injector securing plates and restart the car then remove each injector in turn about four inches and check they have a good spray. A poor spray (dripping) will not create a fuel vapour in a cold engine that is needed to fire, later the heat of the engine assists fuel vaporisation. Alan Edited August 5, 2019 by barkerwilliams Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 After you've been for a run, does the engine restart easily? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Riche Posted August 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 Thanks for the suggestions. I will look into these areas and see how I get on. Silly question - If I want to reply to an individual post, then how do I do that. I've clicked on the users profile and it shows that I can message, but I'm assuming that is a personal message and not a general reply to the actual post? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcreweread Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 Click on the "Quote " button in the box below the post Cheers Rich Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Riche Posted August 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 8 hours ago, rcreweread said: Click on the "Quote " button in the box below the post Cheers Rich Thanks - I did see that but thought that was for a quotation or something lyrical. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Riche Posted August 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 13 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said: Riche, Welcome to the forum re starting . Check the points gap...starting can gradually get worse. re oil.....welcome to this gem of TR lore: https://www.snic-braaapp.com/spinaltappets/Tappetstry/Spinal Tappets - While My TR Gently Leaks.mp3 Peter Its electronic, but I wil check Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Riche Posted August 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 12 hours ago, c.hydes said: Hi Riche, welcome to the forum, I have starting problems if my 1974 PI has been left for some months, and then have to bleed no 2 injector as it always seems to have air trapped in the line from the MU. Soon sorted though. Regarding dropped oil, yes, I have this at the front, (think it`s a small leak from the timing chain cover, also at the gearbox, and also at the rear differential). Its not much, just part of owing a 45 year old car? Just check the oil levels regularly, especially the rear axle, as it doesn`t have a large capacity, so can soon run dry, and if it does you could be in to damage. !! Regards, Colin. Thanks Colin, You are correct in saying check levels, but this is something extra that has just started. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brian -r Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 Riche The symptoms you describe are identical to the one I had with my PI car earlier this year, it turned out to be a slowly failing battery not supplying enough power for cranking , fuel pump and ignition ,when cold. Brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Riche Posted August 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 12 hours ago, c.hydes said: Hi Riche, welcome to the forum, I have starting problems if my 1974 PI has been left for some months, and then have to bleed no 2 injector as it always seems to have air trapped in the line from the MU. Soon sorted though. Regarding dropped oil, yes, I have this at the front, (think it`s a small leak from the timing chain cover, also at the gearbox, and also at the rear differential). Its not much, just part of owing a 45 year old car? Just check the oil levels regularly, especially the rear axle, as it doesn`t have a large capacity, so can soon run dry, and if it does you could be in to damage. !! Regards, Colin. Thanks Colin, I do check the oil levels, but this is just starting to happen. I have added a photo of oil patch that it creates when first started. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Riche Posted August 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 10 hours ago, Mike C said: After you've been for a run, does the engine restart easily? Mike, it starts ok and it does not drop any oil either Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 I think it could be condensation leaking from the exhaust pipe, from one of the joins, have a look under the car the next time you start in the morning. After a run it will have dried the system out. You could put some cardboard under the car when you start it up, it will help to identify where its actually coming from. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Riche said: Mike, it starts ok and it does not drop any oil either If it starts easily hot but not after being left for a few days it could be the check valves in the lines from the MU to the injectors. In any case if I leave the car for more than a few days I let the pump run for maybe 30 secs to fill up the injection system and start returning fuel to the tank. A Bosch pump changes note when the lines are full due to the increased head. You cannot expect a cold TR to fire as soon the starter turns like a modern car. The oil leak is a red herring with the starting problem but if I were you I'd still have a look at it when I had some spare time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Harbottle Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 6 hours ago, Mike C said: if I leave the car for more than a few days I let the pump run for maybe 30 secs to fill up the injection system and start returning fuel to the tank. X2 Me too Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Riche Posted August 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 On 8/6/2019 at 11:04 AM, Mike C said: If it starts easily hot but not after being left for a few days it could be the check valves in the lines from the MU to the injectors. In any case if I leave the car for more than a few days I let the pump run for maybe 30 secs to fill up the injection system and start returning fuel to the tank. A Bosch pump changes note when the lines are full due to the increased head. You cannot expect a cold TR to fire as soon the starter turns like a modern car. The oil leak is a red herring with the starting problem but if I were you I'd still have a look at it when I had some spare time. Hello Mike, A good point. I will leave the pump running longer. I do leave it running now but maybe I am too eager to start the engine, so will take your advice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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