Graham Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Finally bitten the bullet and the carbs are off for rebuild at Andrew Turner, this brings me to the point of this post. Now that I have access I was going to simply do a +ve to -ve earth conversion, but was just wondering about doing an alternator conversion instead, whilst I have easy access. thoughts anyone ? If I do go down the alternator route I'm not planning to run a light bar the would shame an HGV, a small improvement in output will suffice. Anybody recommend a specific supplier 'kit' I know number of the suppliers do them, just looking for one that is EASY to fit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Hi Graham, your dynamo gives out about 22amps max. any alternator at about 40amps or greater will see you through. They are all easy to fit but do ensure that you get all the instructions. Wiring diagram needs to be clear as you will be doing away with the control box and joining a good few wires. You need a lefthand alternator. The very modern Denso alts have a good reputation but so does the old fashion ACR types. I'm sure there is a queue forming to give advice Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Assuming yours is still wide-belt Graham, you have to decide whether to use the existing dynamo pulley with an alternator, source a wide-belt alternator pulley or go with a narrow-belt conversion. That may be a lot more complicated to fit as you would probably have to take the radiator out for access to the crank extension. There are lots of old threads on the topic - worth a search of the forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) Hi Graham ~ Here is the wiring diagram for the Alternator conversion. I retained the original control box, stripped of all it's internal bits so the car looks original. Tom. Edited January 28, 2018 by Fireman049 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Have a look at Section J4 in the Technicalities CD (taken from TR Action 118), and the article about Moss alternator kits in TR Action 248 (March 2011) which can be read on-line on the TR Register's website. Narrow belt conversion is well worthwhile, but see Rob's comment in post #3, above. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) This is the Nippon Denso Kubota garden tractor unit that is being fitted these days - I have one on my TR3. - I had to machine the standard wide belt pulley from the dynamo, where the nut sits, to get more clearance for a socket when the holding nut is fitted. Simple if you have a lath * alternative is a narrow belt conversion. Try one of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denso-Kubota-40-Amp-Alternator-With-Built-In-Regulator-3-Pin-Plug-Included-New/302618810543?hash=item46757c98af:g:8HcAAOSwgQ9VnRFB plus one of these http://www.racetorations.co.uk/triumphs-c56/tr2-c3/tr2-engine-c12/racetorations-tr2-4a-fitting-kit-alternator-p460 You will also need a wiring diag . try this http://www.racemettleltd.co.uk/fitalt.html Peter W PS I still run the standard sized wide belt, and I had to add an extra wire from the ignition side of the fuse box to energise the alternator. Edited January 28, 2018 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted January 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) Suplimentary question but with a 'lower' output alternator of around 40-45 amps do I need to be concerned about overloading the loom ? Edited January 28, 2018 by Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Hi Graham, the alternator will only supply what is asked of it. All your items that need powering up will not change so the loom will see no difference. If you start going silly and fitting power hungry devices at the ends of the loom then you will need to think about ti.. Another way of looking at it - how much power will the battery send out under a serious short. The alternator will be nowhere near this. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 I have a Suzuki Swift (around the late 90s models) generator in my car. A lot cheaper than the Denso's - at least at that time. I only asked for a Suzuki item and didn't tell them it was going to be installed into a classic car. Must have lowered the price! Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 I have one of the Nippon Denso's as highlighted by Peter W. I still have the original wiring for the ammeter and so can see what output is at any time. When I start the car after a lay up, I take the plugs out and spin the oil pressure up on the starter motor first - this takes a while. When I then start the car, the battery is probably about as discharged as it ever gets and the ammeter will briefly show 30 amps which very quickly drops to somewhere between 10 and 15. In other words, a 40 amp alternator isn't going to be a problem. Rgds Ian PS If it is a Kubota one with the plug and terminals as illustrated in the little diagram on the side of it, then you can link two of the terminals together and forget about one altogether. I can't remember which at the moment because it was a while ago that I did it and my memory isn't what it used to be. If you would like me to look up and send you the details, let me know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 I use a plug in volt meter https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hakkin-2-in1-Car-12V-Cigarette-Lighter-Plug-LED-Dual-Digital-Voltmeter-Temper/192381699479?epid=1193633787&hash=item2ccad7c597:g:lFoAAOSwIFtaIGcG in an accessory socket (cigar lighter) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-24V-20A-Cigar-Lighter-Accessory-Power-Supply-Socket-Durite-0-601-01/221214835614?epid=2259768361&hash=item33816e839e:g:1G4AAOSw74FXPbBz Keeps me informed of what condition the battery voltage is. Peter W PS - Car is NEGATIVE earth, which means I can use most modern accessories like satnav, phone charger etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted January 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 This is the Nippon Denso Kubota garden tractor unit that is being fitted these days - I have one on my TR3. - I had to machine the standard wide belt pulley from the dynamo, where the nut sits, to get more clearance for a socket when the holding nut is fitted. Simple if you have a lath * alternative is a narrow belt conversion. Try one of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denso-Kubota-40-Amp-Alternator-With-Built-In-Regulator-3-Pin-Plug-Included-New/302618810543?hash=item46757c98af:g:8HcAAOSwgQ9VnRFB plus one of these http://www.racetorations.co.uk/triumphs-c56/tr2-c3/tr2-engine-c12/racetorations-tr2-4a-fitting-kit-alternator-p460 You will also need a wiring diag . try this http://www.racemettleltd.co.uk/fitalt.html Peter W PS I still run the standard sized wide belt, and I had to add an extra wire from the ignition side of the fuse box to energise the alternator. Pete been having a look at this, the alternator you suggest appears to have 4 terminals. A big one marked 'B' plus the 3 terminals on the plug. The race metal wiring diagrams only show 2 connections on the alternator. What wire should go where ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 For a four-connection alternator - B goes to the battery (via the ammeter) L goes to the ignition warning lamp I goes to the ignition switch S goes to the battery as the voltage sense line. You could link S to B at the alternator but the system will not then compensate for voltage drop on the feed to the battery. You will need to re-wire some of the connections at the existing voltage regulator and the ignition warning lamp but the details depend on what alternator you buy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 For the Nippon Denso/Kubota shown on ebay the connections are P = Pulse which is for a tachometer so it's not used on a TR (well it isn't on mine and works fine) IG = ignition for field excitation L = Charge lamp Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) The one I have has two small wires in the plug plus a big screwed terminal. Check the item I highlighted is correct mounting lug positions. See Brise for dimensions Peter W PS. See http://www.brise.co.uk/Denso-5305.html. The featured one I gave looks very similar to the Brise item. Edited January 29, 2018 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted February 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Could somebody just confirm for me that once the alternator is physically installed and the control box wiring is modified as per Tom's diagram above, then all I should have to do is flip the battery (and battery terminal clamps) around, then reverse the coil and ammeter connections, and hey presto I should have a -ve earth alternator equipped TR3 .................. Just don't want a 'hey presto melted loom TR3!' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Yes that is all Graham - unless you have anything like an electric cooling fan that may need reversing too, depending on type. Of course positive-earth LED bulbs, electronic ignition or a radio would be most unhappy about the change. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted February 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Yes that is all Graham - unless you have anything like an electric cooling fan that may need reversing too, depending on type. Of course positive-earth LED bulbs, electronic ignition or a radio would be most unhappy about the change. I can confirm that UOV has precisely................none of those, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted February 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Just got the alternator fitted, its an 'ACR' type and uses the old wide belt pulley. Got it all bolted up, but it looks like the alternator pulley is forward of the water pump pulley. A bit odd as the kit says that I may have to put washer on the mounting pedestal to bring the alternator forwards. I'm guessing I need to pull it all out and reduce the length of the pedestal, am I correct ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Hi Graham, the crank and water pump pulleys are your fixed datumnii. The alternator needs packing/spacing to get it in line. This can sometimes be a devil of a job. You need to be inventive. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 They often need a few washers one way or another to get them to line up, the adjuster arm may well need a cut and shut to get the angle right (easier and cheaper than the expensive fitting kits) Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 When my TR4 was re-built, some 25 years ago, a Lucas LRA101 (as used on the TR7) was fitted. This is ACR type and the only modification required was to the mounting bracket at bottom rear - the detail of the modification is shown in the drawing in Section J4 of the Technicalities CD (and in TR Action 118). I was using the wide belt back then, and all 3 pulleys lined up correctly without any need for packing washers. When the water pump died in 1998, I took the opportunity to switch to narrow pulleys and belt, and, again, everything aligned properly. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikej Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 Graham, putting aside cable current capacity, it is possible to retain the regulator and associated generator wiring if you want apparent originality. Remove of all the regulator entrails and add two links under the terminals. The space inside can be used for spares/tools/alarms etc. With a standard loom, H4 Halogens and a Pacit fan I have continued to use my standard wiring loom (c. 1978 from C& with and ACR17 alternator. I did the math at the time and concluded the cables were all up to it without relays etc. That was >20 years ago and all has been OK. I can post the regulator mods if interested, although if you are going to run several kW of lighting this may not be for you! MIke Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.