Rear wheel camber - MOT failure

[Terry Field]

Just failed my first MoT with the car. The rear offfside tyre is clearly touching the suspension damper mount (upgraded, not the original damper arm) in certain situations and has actually dug a groove about an inch wide in the wall of the tyre - bit scary!

 

The tyre is also heavily worn on the inside tread, showing presumably a heavy camber on the wheel.

 

Comparing the n/s and o/s wheels, the gap between the o/s wheel and suspension mount is about 1/2 inch, whereas the gap on the n/s is about 1inch with the car sitting on the ground. The two mounts appear to be the same distance from the chassis, although I haven't had chance to measure anything yet.

 

The garage suggested just grinding a bit off the suspension mount, but I think I would like to understand more about the problem first.

 

Is the rear camber adjustable and, if so, how is it done, and what is the optimum setting. If not - any other ideas please?

 

Thanks

 

Terry

[Tim D.]

Yes. I think there are three types of trailing arm bracket that can be combined to give the camber you want. You can also but adjustable ones. If you car has been lowered this can cause an issue.

Cheers

Tim

[RogerH]

Hi Terry,

you must have a fair bit of negative camber.

Don't grind the damper etc.

You could fit a 6mm spacer on the hub ,

Better still have a read here http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Suspension/AdjRS/AdjRS.htm

and consider sorting the camber.

 

The brackets at the front of the trailing arms are the adjusters. - the above link explains what they do.

Or you could buy adjustable brackets and play with them.

 

As you load up the boot the camber goes more negative.

 

What size tyres have you got.

Roger

[harlequin]

Terry

I found similar heavy wear patterns on my rear tyres a couple of weeks ago, when I checked the camber I fouund it to be about 2.5○ and the ride height was a bit on the low side and most likely very low when driving.

I checked the chassis for damage and the arrangement of the trailing arm brackets and all seemed OK so I replaced the 45 year old rear springs which has fixed the camber issue.

So I would suggest removing the spring on the offending side (takes about an hour) and see if has given up the ghost, also have a look at the rubber ring things at top and bottom of the spring.

I found this article useful http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Suspension/RSGeometry/RSGeometry.htm

 

Good luck

George

[harlequin]

Oops Rodger you beat me to it

must type faster and pay attention

 

George

[RogerH]

Hi Terry,

as George has pointed out the ride height has a big affect on the camber with standard springs.

The attached link comments on the ride height.

 

If you feel you have to adjust the brackets then get all four wheels checked using a Hunter Hawkeye system - this will give precise measurements to work to.

 

Adjusting the brackets is a big job.

 

Roger

[harlequin]

I forgot to mention that the length of my old springs, when I got them out were within 10mm of the recommended free length but were obviously sagging when under load.

 

George

[Terry Field]

Thanks chaps. I will have read on the link. It has been commented that the car seems to have been lowered in the past (body off rebuild in 2011 - long before I bought it)

 

The current tyres are 195/65

 

Cheers

 

Terry

[RogerH]

Hi Terry,

I have 165 tyres and they were rubbing. Your tyres are that much wider so any excess camber will cause a problem (with or without a loaded boot.).

 

Roger

[harlequin]

Terry

I have just measured from ground to the lip of the wheel arch at the centre of the wheel and it is 675mm with new standard springs and new 195/65 tyres

 

George

[TR NIALL]

Terry

I have just measured from ground to the lip of the wheel arch at the centre of the wheel and it is 675mm with new standard springs and new 195/65 tyres

George

You need to measure from the Centre Point on the Wheel to the Wheel Arch,different profile Tyres and Pressures will give a wrong reading.

[TriumphV8]

Do not forget the toe in!

Lowering the car or swapping the brackets

or using the car during the years has an

effect on the toe in.

 

Always after setting the rear camber the

toe in must be checked.

 

Wear of the tyre inside is typical for too much toe in.

[stuart]

Do not forget the toe in!

Lowering the car or swapping the brackets

or using the car during the years has an

effect on the toe in.

 

Always after setting the rear camber the

toe in must be checked.

 

Wear of the tyre inside is typical for too much toe in.

Inside wear would be toe out not in.

Stuart.

[peejay4A]

I think it's excess toe out that gives wear on the inside.

 

Edit: simulpost.

Edited April 14, 2017 by peejay4A

[stuart]

TBH with enough toe out to wear the inside off just one tyre must make for "Interesting" handling too! I think I would be having a damn good look at trailing arm sections too.

Stuart.

Edited April 14, 2017 by stuart

[RogerH]

Hi Folks,

the wear that Terry has mentioned is on the side wall due to rubbing on the damper strut.

This is a camber problem in the main. Toe in/out may be another issue.

 

Roger

[peejay4A]

Terry also said this:

 

The tyre is also heavily worn on the inside tread, showing presumably a heavy camber on the wheel.

[RogerH]

Hi Pete,

I didn't spot that. Well noted.

 

Roger

[Terry Field]

Thanks chaps - I think all that info is enough to give me a headache all over Easter! Looks like I'm going to need a lot of help sorting this one

 

Terry

[harlequin]

Terry

Dont panic these cars are very agricultural it will be somthing basic, tick off the simple things 1st

 

Check height on each side to see if they are equal (I will measure from wheel centre to arch tomorrow )

Check chassis and trailing arms for damage

Place a length of wood against each rear tyre and see where it touches the front tyre to get an idea ot toe in/out

Get the offside rear wheel off and have a good look at the spring (this is what my money is on)

Check the notches on the trailing arm brackets (If the tyre wear is a recent development it wont be the brackets)

Check all the bolts for tightness

 

George

[peejay4A]

Personally I'd get it to a trustworthy 4 wheel alignment outfit and get some measurements done so as to give you a baseline to work from. Bits of string and wood only go so far and you can end up with a car that crabs if you're not careful.

Edited April 14, 2017 by peejay4A

[RogerH]

Hi Terry,

if you get as far as taking the brackets off then inspect them carefully for cracking between the attachment holes.

They DO crack and usually it is quite obvious.

 

Roger

[harlequin]

Terry

Centre of wheel to wheel arch 380mm, you may have a slightly different figure due to the body shims but only by 5 or 10mm

As Pete said do not make adjustments using bits of wood etc this is only to get an idea if things are in the right area (the wood should touch the front tyre about 20mm in from the outside edge, if it is outboard of the tyre you have a toe out issue)

 

I would suggest that if there was no problem at last years mot and you now have this problem somthing has broken, bent or sagged in the time between. Assess what it is and rectify before making adjustments and most definitely dont start cutting or grinding as this will compound the problem

 

Keep us posted

George

[Austin Branson]

Hello Terry, when I bought mine it had original lever-arm shocks, and I had Glen replace with telescopic. The LH tyre was rubbing on the bracket for the new shock. When I checked, the body was not mounted centrally on the chassis. To correct I fitted 6mm spacers. Handling is fine. Let us know how you get on. Austin

[Terry Field]

At last I have managed to get into the garage and have a g0od look. The vital statistics are as follows:-

 

Height, floor to NS arch = 682mm

Height, floor to OS arch = 665mm Difference of +/- 17mm

 

 

Using a right angle measure,

O/S N/S

• Distance to bottom lip of wheel rim 22mm 23mm

 

• Distance to centre of wheel 30mm 26mm

 

• Distance to top of wheel rim 44mm 38mm

 

 

There is a 5mm spacer between the wheel and the brake drum.

 

Tyres are 195/65

 

Checking the trailing arm brackets, the inner bracket has 3 notches, the outer bracket has one notch. The bushes are poly and appear to be sound.

 

The bolts on the N/S trailing arm bolts needed about one full turn to get them to the correct torque. On the O/S (where the tyre rubs) the inside bolt needed about 1/2 a turn. The outside bolt was OK.

 

There is no apparent damage to the springs and the inserts seem to be OK.

 

I have attached photos of the O/S suspension. you can just see where the trye has been rubbing on the top trailing edge of the shock absorber mount. I have also attached a picture of the tyres showing the wear on the inside shoulders.

 

Short of stripping out the springs and bushes for replacement, I am not sure where to go next.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Terry