Jomac Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 I believe I may need a new battery. I have been told that low voltage (possibly a knackered battery) is causing my LED indicators/flasher unit to malfunction yet there is sufficient to crank the engine over and start up after the winter lay up? How can this be? The battery has been kept on a trickle charger all winter. My current battery is a 'Type 069 - 68AH - 505amps SAE' It may be silly but what do these numbers mean? If I do need a new battery is there any advantage/disadvantage in upping or downing the AH and Amps? Which of these numbers is vital? What would be the best AH/Amps to go for? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 Hi Jomac? The numbers are important, but not for your issue. 68 Ah is the capacity (size) of the battery and it should be sufficient. If you start your engine and measure the voltage over the battery (engine running at idle) it should be around 13.5 V, or even a bit more. If this is the case, your battery is not the cause. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 You say you can start the car up - so If the indicators are still not working properly with the engine running, then its probably not the battery at fault as by then the generator should be pushing out enough voltage. You should do the voltage check as Waldi suggests. Do you have an ammeter - and if so what does that say with the engine running? Ampere-Hours is the total capacity of the battery - yours should supply 1 amp for 68 hours, 10 amps for 6.8 hours and so on pro-rata. Unless you are intending to drain power from the battery with the engine off (so no output from the generator) then that number isn't too important, e.g. 65, 68, 72 should all work equally well. The 505 amps figure is the instantaneous current that can be drawn when starting and depends on the internal resistance of the battery. That figure is more important because it shows how well the starter will work and generally the higher it is, the better. If your present battery has worked well for you until now, and you find that you do need to change it, then the same figures should be fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AL TR250 Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 I had this issue after a winter lay up. In the autumn the LEDs worked fine but the next spring i just couldn't get them to work despite changing flasher units, etc. I changed back to normal bulbs and the problem was solved! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 No argument with the above but to add, while you have your meter out. Check the volts at the lights. Corrosion or so etching may have made the resistance in the wires to them higher, so volts at the end lower. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AL TR250 Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 And obviously check if the bulb is working!! Mine, from a well-known parts supplier, failed after a couple of outings! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 I'd suspect corrosion in the bulb holders. Low current LEDs don't like it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jomac Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) Many thanks for the suggestions and explanations. Unfortunately I do not have an ammeter. More information: The original indicator problem, dependent on the position of the indicator stalk, meant that the left indicators were just 'on' - not flashing. In the right position I had hazard warning lights flashing (all four corners flashing) but it has not got hazard lights fitted! In neutral position the green dash light glowed. In an attempt to test the flasher unit I managed to 'blow it up' due to a poorly improvised bulb holder - don't ask! Since then, put the battery on charge for 24 hours, fitted a new LED flasher unit and the character of the fault has now changed to either left or right indicators are just 'on' - not flashing. Hazard flashing has disappeared. Bulb holders are in good, some like new, condition. Thanks for the battery information. Is the energy draw (type of draw) from a battery for indicators 'and the like' different to say the starter motor? In other words is there an element of the battery that could be, to use a technical phrase, knackered, but is still OK for other requirements - this has been suggested to me hence my initial questions about batteries. Thanks again Edited April 2, 2017 by Jomac Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 As batteries age the internal resistance increases which means that when a high current is drawn, the voltage drops to a low value. That will affect starting first, where the current is very much higher than for other loads, so if your battery is OK for starting it will easily handle much lower currents like lights and indicators. An LED flasher unit is electronic and should not be affected by the load, so the fact your indicators are on but not flashing points to a fault with the flasher relay. Does it have four terminals? If so, one of those should be earthed and it is possible the earth is poor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jomac Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Thanks RobH - It is a two terminal flasher unit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Sounds like the flasher unit is to blame - send it back !. Don't know where you got it from, but I have a three terminal one (on a TR3) from Gil at bettercarlighting & it has given no trouble. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jomac Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 The flasher unit came from Gil (who is extremely helpful) at Bettercarlighting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jomac Posted April 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 LED update - The malfunctioning LED indicators was down to a 'knackered battery'. With the old battery on 'hi' charge everything worked normally. With a new battery everything works normally. Forgive me as I am not too technical but apparently the lead inside batteries get a sulfide coating and with age this is sufficient to affect the out put even though the battery is still able to turn the engine over. Apparently LEDs are very voltage sensitive and this was my problem. A big thank you to Gil from Bettercarlighting who helped me sort it out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Many thanks for the suggestions and explanations. Unfortunately I do not have an ammeter. More information: The original indicator problem, dependent on the position of the indicator stalk, meant that the left indicators were just 'on' - not flashing. In the right position I had hazard warning lights flashing (all four corners flashing) but it has not got hazard lights fitted! In neutral position the green dash light glowed. In an attempt to test the flasher unit I managed to 'blow it up' due to a poorly improvised bulb holder - don't ask! Since then, put the battery on charge for 24 hours, fitted a new LED flasher unit and the character of the fault has now changed to either left or right indicators are just 'on' - not flashing. Hazard flashing has disappeared. Bulb holders are in good, some like new, condition. Thanks for the battery information. Is the energy draw (type of draw) from a battery for indicators 'and the like' different to say the starter motor? In other words is there an element of the battery that could be, to use a technical phrase, knackered, but is still OK for other requirements - this has been suggested to me hence my initial questions about batteries. Thanks again Jomac, Glad you're sorted. but what you need is a multimeter, which you will find it far more versatile and useful than just an ammeter. And it will cost only a tenner: http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/hand-tools/rolson-digital-multimeter This will measure voltage, resistance, and very low (milli)amps, but current flow is rarely a useful measure. Your electrified friend Gil would no doubt advise you. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jomac Posted April 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Thanks John I actually 'inherited' that very model but called a Mastech in amongst my fathers garage stuff when I cleared his house. Never been sure how to use it but I have now located instructions on line - but might be beyond me! Thanks again Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mafield Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 I'm confused! If the battery turned the engine over to start it, it couldn't be that flat, unless your compressions are almost non existant. Also if the problem persisted with the engine running, the output from the alternator would have brought the volts up anyhow! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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