Richard Young Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Hi everyone, (TR6 restoration cont....) Just building up the front suspension with all new bits...I have an issue with bottom trunnions.(See pic)..Having fitted new springs/shocks etc..with the suspension hanging,the trunnion stop bolt is hard up against the spring pan and jamming any steering movement.This can't be normal surely unless fitting the anti roll bar and rack lifts the suspension so that the trunnion is free but I have my doubts..before I continue I need some advice..thanks in advance. Richard. Edited December 10, 2016 by Richard Young Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Richard, The base of the spring looks to be about 1/2inch too far outwards for a TR6. Yours looks more like a TR4A: http://www.triumphexp.com/phile/7/55022/005.JPG rather than a 6: http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk199/Tom74tr6/Front%20Suspension/5-14-08001.jpg Could you have a TR4/6 bitsa? The 4 and 6 trunnions are, I think, the same, but not sure about wishbones or spring pans. When the suspension is loaded there'll be more clearance but there could still be a risk of the unloaded side locking in tight turns. The arb will reduce the droop of the unloaded side. But any risk of steering locking is bad, so best to track down the problem. Peter Edited December 10, 2016 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Blimey..something wrong here then..thanks Peter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Blimey..something wrong here then..thanks Peter. Hi Richard, Maybe nothing that a touch with angle grinder wont sort out ? Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Hi Richard if the suspension is hanging then then gap between trunion and pan will reduce. I've not noticed these two items touching, Are these new trunions. If so have you got the old ones for comparison. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Peter...Heres a pic of original so again looks very close to what I have now.I didnt check at the time whether the original set up was jamming.I'm sure I have the correct TR6 parts so angle grinder might be the answer.Will wait a bit to see what others think. Yes, new trunnions,will try the old ones (thanks Roger) Edited December 10, 2016 by Richard Young Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Presume doesnt matter which way round top ball joints attach ..which might affect the geometry if they are not symetrical Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Hi Richard, can the pan be levered inboard a fraction. You don;t want it hitting the trunnion as something will give. You may be able to grind some material off the trunnion. Thinking sideways here - have you got longer springs than normal forcing it down further (not sure if that is possible) The damper will limit movement - have you got that insitu. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 damper is in...new standard springs.Seems to me that there is normally a very close proximity between the two in which case grind a tad of the trunnion casting where the steering lock stop bolt enters might do the trick.Probably Rimmers version of a trunnion! R. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 I think full droop is limited by the inner end of the lower wishbones contacting the corner of the chassis rail. The ball joint is symmetrica damper is in...new standard springs.Seems to me that there is normally a very close proximity between the two in which case grind a tad of the trunnion casting where the steering lock stop bolt enters might do the trick.Probably Rimmers version of a trunnion! R. IIRC you'll also need clearance for the eccentric limit-stop and its bolt. Wihtout that the brake disc will be gouged by the end of the long bolt. Puzzling that this issue doesn't crop up more often.... I think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Hi Peter. In normal loaded operation it will clear ...probably. Thing is I cannot easily load the susp to find out as it is a obviously a bare chassis and weighs nothing.Its rather looking now like that a small adjustment will solve it ...i.e grinder. Didnt want to go any further without consulting on the forum.Its probably the new trunnion casting is fractionally amiss in that area. All good fun! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) So checking my 4a which is up on stands having a new side put in it at the moment, it has the new Moss Trunnions fitted (Same trunnion late 4 to 6) and on full drop the inner edge of the trunnion has about 1/16" clearance but the back of the lockstop is touching the spring pan. So try fitting the lockstop and then drop it down again. Stuart. Edited December 10, 2016 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Egg on face!!!!!! Just dawned on me... I was thinking the trunnion itself turned but of course it doesnt! So it really doesnt matter it bottoming out on the spring pan when sus is hanging.It shouldnt do any harm. Thanks Peter and Roger for your input and interest,sorry to have taken up your time. Can't blame it on last night...it was a dry one for a change. I guess the brain is slowing down at 67. Richard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Hi Richard, although this is possibly normal it is not a good design. In normal operation the pan will miss the trunnion. But if/when the front end takes flight - humpy bridges etc then the trunnion will get a clouting. This could cause damage somewhere Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Good point Roger.I think I will shave a tad off the pan..a half moon about 3/4 inch long and 1/8 inch in.trunnion should clear it in all events and not compromise strength of the pan. R. Edited December 10, 2016 by Richard Young Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Richard, I had exactly the same a few weeks ago on my TR6, and on both sides. Springs are original length. I left as is (no grinding), because in normal position the trunnion clears from the springpan. Regards, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Richard, I'd wait until the car is finished and the spring compressed to normal working length. That will open up the clearance. You then need to be sure that in hard cornering the clearance is still present on the drooping unloaded side. Otherwise the leverage on trunnion would stiffen the steering and wont help longevity of the upright. The arb will reduce the droop of the unloaded wheel, so the clearance may well be OK. There are many 6s around with more negative camber - set by reversing the upper wishbone mounting- that will have less clearance than normal. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 All done...have ground off a little of the pan both sides and there is clearance so think it is a 'result'. Thanks everyone for your helpful input. R. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Just noticed on full lock with the sus drooped the nut of the front top steering arm bolt (The longer one) touches the coil spring....Oh joy! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Just noticed on full lock with the sus drooped the nut of the front top steering arm bolt (The longer one) touches the coil spring....Oh joy! Have you fitted the lock stops yet? Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Yes Peter I have.... it touches the spring just a tad before the lock stop. Guess it is probably normal,the issue only arises with the sus hanging so in normal operation everything should be fine R. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 You have something wrong IE how many shims fitted ? the mot man will find out where the fault is Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) Richard, I agree with Neil, something is wrong. Maybe the spring pans are from a TR4 not 4a/5/6. Image of TR4 spring pan: http://www.2040-parts.com/_content/items/images/45/1107145/001.jpg And 4A/5/6: http://thumbs4.picclick.com/d/w1600/pict/351854605879_/Triumph-TR4A-TR6-Front-Suspension-Lower-Spring-Pan.jpg They are different: - the 6 has the location of the spring retaining rim moved inboard, such that it has been recessed to fit around the heads of studs that locate the shocker. This would make the spring coil on a 4 sit further outboard than on a 6, by several mm. - the edge where you have had to grind off material is sloped on the 6 and nearer vertical on the 4. - these differences fit with post 2 showing a gap to the edge of the spring of about 1.5 limit-stop-bolt's head diameter on the 6, and less than one diameter on yours. Both are at full droop. So my best guess is a previous owner fitted spring pans from a 4. And survived the experience. Maybe the answer now is to set the limit stop so the steering at full lock, car loaded, doesn't touch the spring. But why should he have fitted two spring pans off a 4 ?? Peter Edited December 11, 2016 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 As mentioned, I have rhe same issue Richard has, trunnions contacting seat pan when springs are at max. Length. So I checked my springpans, they are from a 4a/5/6, similar to Peters rusty example (thanks Peter). I have 2 a d 1 shim fitted between the lower arms and the chassis, so nothing excessieve. Don't understand what is causing this. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rog1 Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Hi all, following this thread with interest. Have done the nearside recently (it's a 6 and as per Peter's pics, correct spring pan) and currently doing the offside. I haven't experienced, or maybe noticed? these issues? It is somewhat loaded, as in the fact that the engine is in, one front at a time with the opposite wheel sitting on a dolly etc. Happy to take pics if it helps, however I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along. Regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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