monty Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 I have by accident found some play in all 3 pulleys (water pump, crankshaft & alternator). Is this normal or acceptable? What could be the cause? Anything to worry about? Do others have similar play? Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Zero play in all of mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Hi Monty, if you mean the pulley has play on its axle then you have a problem. There should be no play. Eventually either the nut will undo and the pulley come off or the axle will snap. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted August 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Hi Monty, if you mean the pulley has play on its axle then you have a problem. There should be no play. Eventually either the nut will undo and the pulley come off or the axle will snap. Roger Hi Roger, Just checked security of the nuts on the alternator & water pump (cannot get under the car to check the crankshaft nut @ the moment) & both required a little tightening. No change in play of the shafts however. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 If the crankshaft pulley has play there's definitely something wrong. Is it an original? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 What sort of play? That is, wobbling on the shaft, or rotating on the shaft? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted August 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 If the crankshaft pulley has play there's definitely something wrong. Is it an original? Hi Pete, I believe it to have been fitted when the engine was rebuilt by Racetorations around 12K miles ago. The pulley has a harmonic damper fitted & it appears to have a little play in it & the shaft that goes through the timing chain cover oil seal. I have not yet had a chance to see if the crankshaft nut needs tightening (I doubt that it is loose). I am surprised I have not noticed any of this before & find it strange that all 3 pulleys have play in them @ the same time. The engine is uprated & goes as well as it has for the past 2 years in my ownership. Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Monty, I'd try a spanner on it asap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Very strange for play to develop on all 3 at same time. Is timing oil seal leaking, it would if you had much play. Just to be sure check engine is not moving on loose mountings! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted August 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Very strange for play to develop on all 3 at same time. Is timing oil seal leaking, it would if you had much play. Just to be sure check engine is not moving on loose mountings! Yes Chris, I was surprised to find all 3 suspect. No oil leakage anywhere & engine is secure. Going down to my very good technician tomorrow for inspection & to check bolt security but I am thinking at least a new alternator & water pump. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grahamgl Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Hi Monty, You have not said if it is a wobble or rotational? If it's the latter, missing Woodruff keys? Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted August 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Hi Monty, You have not said if it is a wobble or rotational? If it's the latter, missing Woodruff keys? Graham Sorry Graham. It is a little rotational play. Would be good if it is just missing keys but strange that all 3 pulleys have play. Maybe missing keys on crank, bearings shot in alternator & bearings worn in water pump! In only 12k miles but then I am assuming previous owner fitted all new parts during restoration! Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 "was rebuilt by Racetorations" If the engine was completed there I'd expect it to be right, in my experience they are normally on the ball. Check the torque on the crankshaft dog bolt is 120 lb ft, if it doesn't have that the pulleys will loosen and "fret" against the keyway Woodruff keys causing a little extra "machining" on the pulley sometimes as much as 4 or 5 mm which multiplies up when measured at the pulley outside diameter. If there is any play there the "shock" loads transmitted up the belt have a deleterious affect upon other alternator or water pump pulleys and bearings, a case of accumulated misery ! Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted August 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 "was rebuilt by Racetorations" If the engine was completed there I'd expect it to be right, in my experience they are normally on the ball. Check the torque on the crankshaft dog bolt is 120 lb ft, if it doesn't have that the pulleys will loosen and "fret" against the keyway Woodruff keys causing a little extra "machining" on the pulley sometimes as much as 4 or 5 mm which multiplies up when measured at the pulley outside diameter. If there is any play there the "shock" loads transmitted up the belt have a deleterious affect upon other alternator or water pump pulleys and bearings, a case of accumulated misery ! Mick Richards Hello Mick, I was hoping you might reply with some input. Your comments are exactly what I was thinking this afternoon! Such a coincidence that all 3 pulleys have play. Given that what you say may be the problem, what would need to be done in the crankshaft area to rectify? Obviously rather easier to sort the other 2 items at fault, with new alternator & water pump. Given your experience would you stick with a standard alternator or take the opportunity & go for one of these lightweight Denso types. Many thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Play on all 3 point to one single cause: the belt tension is too high causing excessive wear in bearings and other belt driven appliances. To ascertain this i would check both alternator and water pump bearings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 (edited) "what would need to be done in the crankshaft area to rectify?" Sit you're wife/girlfriend/partner/significant other etc into the driving seat with the car in reverse gear. Ask them to stand on the brakes (if fitted with servo make sure it's pumped up !) and then try and torque up the dog bolt setting the torque wrench at 50 lb ft to start with. Reason is we are trying to ascertain what torque is actually on the bolt, if it doesn't "click off" wind the torque wrench up in increments of 10 lb and keep trying until it does. I suspect it may be undertorqued and if proven so then remove the dog bolt (whilst you have the assistant on the brakes and in reverse ) and then the pulley (likely it may need a puller). Check out the pulley keyway looking for extra wear or even a "key" shaped cutout in the keyway wall where it's jiggled itself in, if there's any sign of the components not being a nice smooth close fit the pulley will need replacing. Any other components replaced alternator/water pump pulleys or bearings will ultimately fail if the crankshaft pulley is rattling and sending these seismic shocks many thousand times a journey via the fan belt into them. Fit new pulley with a new key in the crankshaft (lift it up from the end to remove) and torque up to 120 lb ft. Then replace whatever other failed components where needed pulleys on the ancillaries for example. Obviously check the same items keyways and their keys etc and use the same standards as regards fit etc. Tighten the other pulleys to given torques or to amounts commensurate with their diameters and threads. Ensure the belts aren't set too tight, somewhere between 1/2" and 3/4" slack is where I aim for, it will warn with a squeal if you have it too loose and can then be tightened more. If the belt was set too tight previously it would have had no effect upon the crankshaft pulley (all is solid with no immediate bearings below) hence I think something may be wrong with that's pulley or torqueing which will have affected the others. Mick Richards Edited August 3, 2016 by Motorsport Mickey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted August 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 Many thanks Mick for those very useful comments. Story so far is that my techy (I am getting too old & crotchety with no ramp to crawl under cars any more!) has removed the pulley & found that the securing bolt was slightly too long, giving the impression that it was fully tightened up! This must have happened at least 12k miles ago before I had the car! Only wear @ this stage appears to be the woodruff with the pulley looking ok. New key on order so he will put that in & see if the pulley fits ok with correct bolt. Any play then new pulley. Cheap fix so far but any doubt then we shall keep progressing further! Interesting thought that a TR engine will run like a dream for 12k miles with crank pulley getting progressively loose! So grateful for your comments along with others. Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Many thanks Mick for those very useful comments. Story so far is that my techy (I am getting too old & crotchety with no ramp to crawl under cars any more!) has removed the pulley & found that the securing bolt was slightly too long, giving the impression that it was fully tightened up! This must have happened at least 12k miles ago before I had the car! Only wear @ this stage appears to be the woodruff with the pulley looking ok. New key on order so he will put that in & see if the pulley fits ok with correct bolt. Any play then new pulley. Cheap fix so far but any doubt then we shall keep progressing further! Interesting thought that a TR engine will run like a dream for 12k miles with crank pulley getting progressively loose! So grateful for your comments along with others. Cheers. Car now back. New woodruff key on the crank with replacement oil seal in the timing cover & new chain tensioner to be safe, along with new case gasket. Everything else (timing chain, all pulleys, alternator & water pump) all ok. Got off lightly I think! Regards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Hi Monty, back in the 70's I was pulled over one night by the law whilst in my 4A. It was about 11.30pm and then was making an awful racket. The officer ask me to turn the engine off as it was keeping the cats awake. The following I thought I would investigate. The woodruff key on the crank pulley and its slot were seriously getting more am=nd more badly worn. Thankfully the crank slot was OK - new key and pulley sorted it. Things wear out. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.