Peter Cobbold Posted May 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Hi Pete, I had some repro Ali wheels that required the sleeve nuts. These should be long enough as the sleeve almost protrudes on the far side of the wheel. However the supplied nuts had three diameters - the threaded hole in the 'centre'. The diameter of the sleeve and then finally the hex for the socket. None of the centres of the three diameter coincided - it makes fitting great fun. My next set of Ali wheels used the steel wheel conical nut. These require longer studs because the Ali is significantly thicker. Getting longer front studs is easy - Pan head. The rear studs are a problem. These are counter sunk and there are very few alternatives. In the end I machined the pan heads to have a counter sink. Roger Hi Roger, I think these look like countersunk studs suitable for the rear: http://www.jigsawracingservices.co.uk/suspension%20TR.htm Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi Pete, you should be able to remove the old studs with a good hit with a hammer and no dismantling. However to refit the longer studs you will have to do some dismantling of the front & rear hubs. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytr5 Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 I went down this route many years ago and could not find longer rear studs with a taper on. Racetorations machine a taper on the longer pan head and I fitted these.On the engineering side of me I did not feel comfortable with removing metal from the pan head but Darryl has been doing this for years with no problems (also on race cars) so a good recommendation. I still felt uncomfortable and had a conversation with Jigsaw who agreed to manufacture the longer proper stud (taper for the rear) and now sells them at a good price.The manufacturer makes studs and all sorts of things so knows the correct metal that is used. Hope this helps Peter. Regards Harry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted June 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi Pete, you should be able to remove the old studs with a good hit with a hammer and no dismantling. However to refit the longer studs you will have to do some dismantling of the front & rear hubs. Roger Hi Roger, I'm thinking steel wheels might have been the sensible decision. I really dont want to disturb the rear hubs, bearing in mind their sudden failures. Maybe with new proper nuts, not made of cheese, I can find a slightly longer stud that will fit without dismantling and give decent thread engagement. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted June 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 I went down this route many years ago and could not find longer rear studs with a taper on. Racetorations machine a taper on the longer pan head and I fitted these.On the engineering side of me I did not feel comfortable with removing metal from the pan head but Darryl has been doing this for years with no problems (also on race cars) so a good recommendation. I still felt uncomfortable and had a conversation with Jigsaw who agreed to manufacture the longer proper stud (taper for the rear) and now sells them at a good price.The manufacturer makes studs and all sorts of things so knows the correct metal that is used. Hope this helps Peter. Regards Harry. Thanks Harry, I would have ordered 9 from Jigsaw last night, but their web site didnt like my welsh address. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 I can't help thinking that if the nuts are that bad, how good (or not) are the wheels . . . . . . ? I've seen too many aftermarket alloy wheels of the budget variety fail in service for my liking, and it's no coincidence that serious competition wheels are regarded as 'lifed' components. If a wheel lets go, you're just a passenger observing the course of an accident from the sharp end. No ifs or buts, if I'd received nuts of that calibre, I wouldn't trust the supplier one inch, and the wheels would be straight back for refund, end of. If you have to start stripping hubs and changing studs to enable the wheels to fit, it's the tail wagging the dog. Bloody barmy. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Brilliant, Dave, thank you. Have ordered 8 for the front. Peter I use studs from them but in the 1/2" longer variety, you will need to remove the front hubs to change them but the rears will come out with the hub in situ. These are made out of hard enough steel to be able to strip the thread from a standard steel wheel nut when highly over torqued but without damaging the stud thread! Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 However I do wonder about the quality of some of these cheap so called Minilite copies as they have very little "Meat" around where the spokes join the rim and I suspect would shatter easily if kerbed. The older KN ones on mine have large re-enforcing webs at the rear where the spoke joins the rim and the rim is much thicker in the flange on the inside of the rim which is the same as genuine Miniltites. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 If I was TRacking or Hillclimbing with my TR don't think I'd TRust those Cheap Minilites. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted June 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 I use studs from them but in the 1/2" longer variety, you will need to remove the front hubs to change them but the rears will come out with the hub in situ. These are made out of hard enough steel to be able to strip the thread from a standard steel wheel nut when highly over torqued but without damaging the stud thread! Stuart. Thanks Stuart, I've changed the order to half inch. Am looking into proper wheel nuts: Grayston SN 13 and 13B. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted June 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 However I do wonder about the quality of some of these cheap so called Minilite copies as they have very little "Meat" around where the spokes join the rim and I suspect would shatter easily if kerbed. The older KN ones on mine have large re-enforcing webs at the rear where the spoke joins the rim and the rim is much thicker in the flange on the inside of the rim which is the same as genuine Miniltites. Stuart. If I was TRacking or Hillclimbing with my TR don't think I'd TRust those Cheap Minilites. I'm more concerned with potholes, which should give them a good test at low speeds. I might do the odd track day, IWE being the first. But competition is no longer for me. Do these spoke-rim failures occur catastrophically/suddenly? or does the alloy crack and tear giving a bit of warning by running out-of balance? Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 I'm more concerned with potholes, which should give them a good test at low speeds. I might do the odd track day, IWE being the first. But competition is no longer for me. Do these spoke-rim failures occur catastrophically/suddenly? or does the alloy crack and tear giving a bit of warning by running out-of balance? Peter I would think you'll loose a Chunk as these are only Cast and more than lightly Cheaply Cast. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted June 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 I can't help thinking that if the nuts are that bad, how good (or not) are the wheels . . . . . . ? I've seen too many aftermarket alloy wheels of the budget variety fail in service for my liking, and it's no coincidence that serious competition wheels are regarded as 'lifed' components. If a wheel lets go, you're just a passenger observing the course of an accident from the sharp end. No ifs or buts, if I'd received nuts of that calibre, I wouldn't trust the supplier one inch, and the wheels would be straight back for refund, end of. If you have to start stripping hubs and changing studs to enable the wheels to fit, it's the tail wagging the dog. Bloody barmy. Cheers Alec Alec, I agree. But the cost of new steel wheels is high. Corrosion in my present ones means I need tubes. And I the only TR wheel I have seen let go was steel, on a race Scimitar. And I was sold on the price, around £600 i/c 195 x 65 Yokos and VAT. The nuts are attrocious, both in design and material, and I'd rather see a bigger contact area on the taper so am looking into 'bulge' nuts. The seller was John Brown Wheels and the supplier Midland Wheels. There must be many TRs around with their wheels, or am I the only sucker ? Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Alec, I agree. But the cost of new steel wheels is high. Corrosion in my present ones means I need tubes. And I the only TR wheel I have seen let go was steel, on a race Scimitar. And I was sold on the price, around £600 i/c 195 x 65 Yokos and VAT. The nuts are attrocious, both in design and material, and I'd rather see a bigger contact area on the taper so am looking into 'bulge' nuts. The seller was John Brown Wheels and the supplier Midland Wheels. There must be many TRs around with their wheels, or am I the only sucker ? Peter Yes they are a very popular Wheel and that Seller duz most of the Shows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi Pete, I've used Midland Wheels a couple of times and haven't had a major gripe. You have an assortment of cosmetic problems with cheap hubs - mine was the cheap lacquer covering the diamond cut finish.. The wheels in general are well made. The big issue is fitting them and the studs. I've never seen a broken one - but I don;t get out much Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted June 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) Niall, Roger, That's reassuring. But their email to my query about studs I think is misleading ( post #6 ). If I'd known what I was letting myself in for I'd have thought more deeply about genuine minilites. I have just realised that the steel wheel spare wont be bolted on the longer studs unless I drill out the dome on four old nuts.....and remember to keep them in the boot. Peter Edited June 1, 2016 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel A Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi Peter My original wheels were purchased at Malvern from Midland Wheels and they supplied the nuts that were drilled off centre, necessitating the purchase of new nuts (sleeved) and washers from Moss. They lasted about 3 years before the lacquer on the diamond cut area started flaking off, the same as Roger. This year they looked really tatty and after investigating the cost of refurbishment I decided on genuine Minilites. I purchased these directly from Hamilton Classics and they gave me discount for TR Register membership. Cheers Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted June 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi Peter My original wheels were purchased at Malvern from Midland Wheels and they supplied the nuts that were drilled off centre, necessitating the purchase of new nuts (sleeved) and washers from Moss. They lasted about 3 years before the lacquer on the diamond cut area started flaking off, the same as Roger. This year they looked really tatty and after investigating the cost of refurbishment I decided on genuine Minilites. I purchased these directly from Hamilton Classics and they gave me discount for TR Register membership. Cheers Nigel NIgel, I think they must have changed the design there's no space for sleeves in the wheel drillings for the studs. Perhaps Midland will get more questions at IWE Lincoln than normal. At least potential purchasers could demand a trial fit at the showground. I'm not too worried about appearances, my Smoothrite paint job - 2 coats brushed on in a weekend - tends to distract from the wheels. And the Wooden Spoon award is no more...my ambition thwarted. cheers, Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) Peter Item 16 http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID600149 They should look like that? the first one Edited June 1, 2016 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 If Midland go to the International they usually only do 1 Day which is normally the Saturday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi Pete,. I have a steel wheel as a spare and use the original steel nut rather than temp the fancy chrome nuts on. Both the conical nut and the sleeve nut are used on apparently identical repro wheels from the same manufacturer and supplier. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted June 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) Peter Item 16 http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID600149 They should look like that? the first one Neil, Yes I think so. But the nuts are not clear on the photo. And they cost more. Peter Edited June 1, 2016 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Bear in mind Peter that a 5.5" TR6 standard steel wheel requires 80lb/ft as opposed to the 60lbs/ft for the 4" or 4.5" rim fitted to earlier cars. If the nuts supplied in a package deal won't take that, then the package is junk in my book, and the supplier is offering a dangerously defective package. The fine detail is irrelevant . . . . . As for failure of alloy wheels, I have seen cracks progressing occasionally, but more often the wheel simply fails, big time, just like that. Bang, Geronimo, scenery here we come. Kerbing and potholes are the big concerns, more of a problem on the road than on the track . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Neil, Yes I think so. Peter Peter Good then all you need to do is taper the start of the sleeve lightly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted June 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) Peter Good then all you need to do is taper the start of the sleeve lightly. Neil, I dont understand the sleeve. The nuts have a conical end that abut onto a cone cast into the wheel. The narrow end of this cone is about 9mm from the rear mating surface and the 9mm long bore is only slighly bigger than the stud. I cant see where a sleeve would fit. Peter Edited June 1, 2016 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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