mmmmmManifold

[McMuttley]

I was worried it didn't quite match the burned rocker !

 

So what does that indicate ?

 

The poisonously rich carbs are being re-build. I am expecting an engine rebuild next so valves may not be seated well ?

[Guest ntc]

Be interesting to see the replies to that

[Peter Cobbold]

Perhaps this is what Neil has spotted.

Zoom in on the photo and the ring of blue-ing on the stem suggest the temperature there is getting up to ca 350C

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering_%28metallurgy%29

The reason the valves are running too hot -- assuming they are sealing OK and the engine is tuned OK ( not retarded) -- is the seats have been machined narrower and perhaps made a bigger diameter than originally designed. Most of the heat put into the valve by combustion is lost through the valve seat. Halving its area will halve heat flow and its temperature will run hotter than normal.

 

The rear face of the valve should run at ca 200-250C thus allowing some cooling by evaporation of fuel droplets. If the the valve head is running above 350C due to inadequate seat area, more fuel will bounce off without boiling and cooling the valve. And the valve gets hotter still. See Leidenfrost effect: p7

https://supertrarged.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/tr6se-35-water-injection-revisited.pdf

 

Peter

Edited February 16, 2016 by Peter Cobbold

[McMuttley]

... does that add to smoke and soot manufacture ?

[Don H.]

Occam's razor, Peter. Austin's engine is well known not to have been tuned OK in the past.

[Peter Cobbold]

... does that add to smoke and soot manufacture ?

Not immediately. But it shortens valve life - heating and cooling more each cycle. Can lead to head parting company with stem.

[Peter Cobbold]

Occam's razor, Peter. Austin's engine is well known not to have been tuned OK in the past.

Don, But is it a cooking engine - and thinning inlet valve seats and fitting bigger diameter ivs is conventionally done. Peter

[McMuttley]

I should say that when it goes, it goes like the clappers ! Cooking ?

[Peter Cobbold]

I should say that when it goes, it goes like the clappers ! Cooking ?

Cooking as in 'hotted up'.

[oldtuckunder]

I don't know TR3a Heads but are those vertical steps within the inlet ports standard? or is it just some strange optical illusion

[Ian Vincent]

Austin,

 

I'm working from memory, but my inlet ports don't look anything like yours.

 

Anyway, I have just been down to my garage and measured the distance from the inlet / exhaust port face to the centre line of one of the head bolts and it is 19.2 mm. If yours doesn't measure something similar I would suggest that someone in the past has had the front face machined.

 

FWIW, I attach a photo of my head showing that at the block / head interface there is no step.

 

Rgds Ian

 

[stillp]

That's where the ports have been ball milled to full diameter.

 

Pete

[Ian Vincent]

As I said, I'm working from memory but I don't recall that the milling went so far in on my head so maybe someone has re-worked it.

 

Rgds Ian

[McMuttley]

Hi, yes an illusion, the step is gentle not vertical. the port dia at the face is circa 41mm.

 

Hi Ian, thanks for the dimensions, have just measured mine (!) the face is between 13.0 to 13.5 from the edge of the head bolts, plus 6.25 for half the bolt suggests 19.25 to 19.75 !

[Ian Vincent]

1 5/8" is 41.275 MM so yours is about right.

 

And your dimension from the c/line of the head bolts to the face seems ok, so I guess you just have a "fat" block.

 

Rgds Ian

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

After two two hours finally got the lower bolt/nut off the starter motor to test fit the Bastuck extractor.

 

No issue, it sits well above block, so no fettling required.

 

It does need to be clamped to sit flat across the head, however, even with the thick metal gasket, the collector sits against the block.

 

Is this an issue ?

 

 

 

 

The gaskets are quite thick, so I could pack out withasecondeach side, or is that a bit thick?

 

It does lookrather nice and shiney !

 

 

Even with the alternator heatshield, is it still necessary to coat this bling black ?

That is precisely the manifold design I trial fitted the production sample of for the UK manufacturer in the 1990's - it even had a Bastuck id plate welded to it. It was such a simple fit I bought a second to go on brother's TR2. The big pipe to the system fits centrally through the gap between block/steering and chassis. That step on the block top to cyl head looks a bit more than I am used to seeing.

 

So...

There are a couple of possibilities:-

1 Your engine is odd and the head is set across the block - a very tricky engine tuning mod. - and that means a special solid head gasket is required.

2 Your block is 'fat' - Not ever come across that issue before.

3 You cyl head has been severely shaved on the manifold face - Why?

4 Bastuck's manifold is a rogue and badly made.

 

Tests: -

Do you have an orig cast iron manifold and down pipe? If so trial fit it to see if the down pipe touches the block - If it does it is more than likely your head/block.

Anyone near you with a complete TR2-4 engine with manifolds removed you could try the tube manifold on?

 

Solutions:-

Replacement manifold if the Bastuck item is a dud

Shim beteween head manifold face and manifolds - New studs probably required

 

Peter W

[McMuttley]

Hi Peter, to be fair to Bastuck, they have recognised an issue with the manifold having checked another one at their factory. They offered to resolve mine in the UK, but I have chosen a return, no quibbles from them at all and postage costs to be refunded - so cannot complain there.

 

The replacement Phoenix option arrived this morning (ordered from TR Shop yesterday afternoon and delivered by 9am !) and fits AND clears the block, not by a huge amount, but enough to ensure it sits flat on the head. Just need to await the return of the carbs now to see if they fit OK with the manifold before then sending the extractor off to be coated.

 

This will be a test of my impatience and the need to resit going for the quicker wrap option !

 

 

 

As a comparison, the two manifolds side by side.

 

Edited February 19, 2016 by McMuttley

[Don H.]

You know you'll be happier in the long run with the ceramic coating, Austin. Hold out for the solution you really want!

 

Man, it makes me happy to have left-hand-steer on my car. It really makes things fit in the engine compartment a lot better.

[Lebro]

Austin.

 

You will probably find you have to "relieve" the flange on either the Exhaust, or inlet manifold a small amount. I had to on my Phoenix one.

First fit was with a standard TR3 inlet manifold, & I took some meat off the exhaust to make it fit. I then acquired a TR4A inlet manifold, & it would not quite go on next to the Phoenix, which I had not disturbed, without a little bit of fettling - this time to the inlet manifold.

 

Bob.

[Guest ntc]

Austin.

 

You will probably find you have to "relieve" the flange on either the Exhaust, or inlet manifold a small amount. I had to on my Phoenix one.

First fit was with a standard TR3 inlet manifold, & I took some meat off the exhaust to make it fit. I then acquired a TR4A inlet manifold, & it would not quite go on next to the Phoenix, which I had not disturbed, without a little bit of fettling - this time to the inlet manifold.

 

Bob.

+1 and good luck getting your money back from Bastuk

[Ian Vincent]

Austin,

 

The flange thickness on the new Phoenix manifold will be less than your existing inlet manifold and you will need to add a packer of some sort to bring them level.

 

If you look at the photo in my earlier post on this topic you will see what I mean.

 

Rgds Ian

 

Rgds Ian