Ernest Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Hi all Another query from this somewhat ignorant 'newby'. I am thinking of getting some work done to 4A over the winter and was considring including the fitting of electronic ignition. But on having the car checked a few months ago the garage just recomended having something called Petronix fitted. So, my questions are: - how would electronic ignition improve the runnning of a car that runs quite well already? - what would be best......electronic ignition or Petronix? Thanks in anticipation of your help. Ernest Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dpb Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 well in theory it removes some moving parts - the points - and what these days seem to be dodgy capacitors (condensors), and give a more consistent result. But, lots of people prefer the original set up, and even those with electronic (which includes Petronix and other makes), often keep points and capacitor as a spare in the boot in case of failures. personally I've converted all my to electronic as I was fed up with the capacitor issues. Dave ==== Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Hi Ernest, much the same as Dave's reply. Electronic ignition can give some improvement but with added complexity and possible unreliability issues. The petronix, Luminition, and wonders of ebay - are electronic but very simple in nature - and should improve reliability. I have the Luminition module in my dizzy for the last 10 years or more. I had to replace it prior to that having done about 5 years on the first. Easy to install on a dark country lane. ALWAYS carry a spare. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 The most basic form of electronic ign is the sort offered by Accuspark, or Powerspark (are they actually the same thing - they look the same ?). They consist of a ring magnet which pushes over the cam in your dizzy, & a module which is fastened in place of the points. No capacitor is required. The module has two wires coming from it, one goes to the coil +ve, & the other to the coil -ve. No components outside the dizzy, so looks standard. This is what I have had in my car since 2013 - works well. In case of trouble I carry a spare module, which will be much easier to swap than reverting to points. These kits are easily found on ebay, & are not expensive. Note. you need to specify whether +ve, or -ve earth. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Hi Bob, these 'wonders of Ebay' are hall effect switches - semiconductor switched with a magnet. The ebay offerings (apprx £30) are similar to the lumenition unit (£80) and I think the Petronix (£?). They all work well. However carrying a spare lumenition at £80 is a bit painful. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
exint2 Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Just fitted the 123 programmable unit to my TR4A - whilst expensive £270 ish it is a marked improvement on my car - which I also thought was running pretty well - has cleaned the delivery up, much improved the pick up (especially when warm rather than hot). Being a bit of a geek it's quite interesting to play with the programming and see what effect it has, and if I decide to tune the engine I can just load a different set of curves t suit any changes. As an aside I now understand vacuum advance :-) Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ernest Posted October 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Hi all I am not sure that I have been able to assimilate all the information/advice offered re. modifications to ignition system. But I do now have some useful guidance to consider. Thanks very much for your input. Best Wishes Ernest Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Hi Roger. " these 'wonders of Ebay' are hall effect switches - semiconductor switched with a magnet." PLUS A LOW RDS MOSFET TO DRIVE THE COIL "The ebay offerings (apprx £30) are similar to the lumenition unit (£80) and I think the Petronix (£?)." EXCEPT NO EXTERNAL BOX AS PER LUMINITION "They all work well. However carrying a spare lumenition at £80 is a bit painful. THATS WHY I CHOSE ACCUSPARK !!!! Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 HI Bob, the Lumenition that I have (magnetronic I think) fits inside the dizzy. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Roger. OK. I had Luminition on my Stag about 10 years ago or so, that had a separate metal box with the main electronics in it, in the dizzy was just an optical source, sensor, & a slotted disc on the cam to interrupt the light. I guess things have moved on since then. Cheers Bob. P.S. off to Tangmere tomorrow (in the rain) along with 11 other Thames valley cars. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Hi Bob, one of these little beauties - I've just seen the price. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Hi Bob, here it is http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/electrical-system/ignition-system/lumenition-magnetronic-ignition-system.html Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Hi Bob, here it is http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/electrical-system/ignition-system/lumenition-magnetronic-ignition-system.html Roger Love the way they say "Budget" system! Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 ....I wish I had their budget Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Parallel thread over on Triumph Torque: http://club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl/Blah.pl?m-1445016269/s-32/#num32 Interesting points about the rarity and cost of electronic components. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) My rebuilt distributor from Distributor Doctor had the option of a Pertronix unit included - I chose it as I had experienced the improvement of the Pertronix mod. on another car - and of course there is the bonus of the no faf service that now excludes the points/condenser/dwell/points gap/retiming pantomime. That said I do carry a distributor base plate with pre gapped points and known working condenser attached, just in case. Peter W Edited October 21, 2015 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Hi John, the CT forum topic hits the nail on the head. For our little world you are talking small volume. Anything from the normal makes the price go crazy. The BBC electronic contact breaker item costs apprx £30. Made of plastic and of unknown quality. They do seem to work and replacements are readily supplied. The Lumenition Magnetronic item above is the other end of the spectrum - £100+. But it appears to be well made, with an accurate die cast body and I have had one running now for +10 years. Looking at the volume/bespoke options in another way. I have recently made some components that are no longer available. The first two cost far more than my selling price and that price was far higher than what should have been on the market. But the component worked, it was needed and it was paid for. Since then I have sold enough to cover all my costs - I don;t work for a profit. Cheap doesn't always work. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and cough up. It should be fun in the future when somebody needs an ECU for a modern car. Roger Edited October 21, 2015 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F1loco Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 My vote is electronic conversion...that said...I had my own set of gremlins this past weekend claim a coil and kill my nice morning drive...guessing my solid state regulator not so solid... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wilfried Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Hallo Ernest, In the last 20 years I have mounted about a dozen of electronic ignitions on all kind of Brits. The first ones were Luminition: were more complicated to install and have a external, visible box. The last eight were Pertronix. Easy to install, invisible. Make sure you buy the right model. They sell it according to the car model, bt two of the cars I modified did not have any more the original distributer! The Pertronix must fit the distributer, not the car model!! So: read what is written on the distributer before ordering the Pertronix module. As recommended (by the older generation), I have always put the removed condenser and points into a little bag. They are still in the little bags, never used one nor had any trouble with the electronics! Wilfried PS: With these electronic ignitions the engine does not run better than with a perfectly tuned "normal" ignition. The advantage is reliability: does not go out of tune, no defective condensers no burned points (because there are none). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ernest Posted October 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Thanks again for these further responses. Thanks especially for your advice Wilfried - It does look like i wil be going with the Petronix - this was the one that Sanspeed of Bexleyheath recommended when they tuned the car a few weeks ago. Best wishes and thanks all. Ernest Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) I suspect that many 'failures' may be due to the Heinz 57 nature of our cars. The mixture of ballasted and unballasted coils, ballast resistors that are removed or left in place when they shouldn't, and the changing version of the Lumenition product may be the problem. The Rimmers site includes details about the Lumention system. Note in particular that Lumenition should never be used with conventional coils, with resistance 1.6-3Ohms, but only coils of the low resistance type, =<1.5Ohms, and that their 'Preformance' units should operate a coil with a resistance of only 0.7 OHms ! http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID006400 John Edited October 22, 2015 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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