steve26 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Hi, Indicator switch on the steering wheel seems to be faulty. Whilst driving yesterday, when operated, the left side developed a more than normal click, right side virtually no click felt at all. Eventually the left side stopped working but right OK. Now both are not working. I am assuming the fault is in the switch because of the 'feel' of it. First question - is there any way I can test if the flasher unit itself is working - possible by bypassing the switch with wire across the terminals? If so - which? The flasher unit fitted is square black plastic, which is possible not as original. I see from previous threads that to strip down the steering wheel centre can be a problem. I have seen a complete new centre boss assembly(with horn, indicator switch and length of wire) on ebay. I am tempted to go for this. Am I correct in thinking that fitting involves removal of three grub screws at the back of the steering wheel, disconnecting wires at the snap connectors at other end and withdrawing the unit with wires. Fitting of the replacement is reverse of this. Your thoughts / advice is as always much appreciated. Regards Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve R Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Steve Yes that's about it, you also have to undo the nut and remove the olive at the end of the shaft, before taking it out tie a draw wire to the one of the wires, so you can pull the wire back when you refit it. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 These are very tricky and attaching the loom and feeding it down the stator tube is difficult. When you refit make sure that the three grub screws are on top of the plate. Reuse the tapered screws which are very hard to find. I have a stator tube with the wires lodged inside and I have no way of removing them. Any suggestions I dismantled my old one and used the new one as a pattern for re assembly. One small screw came loose soon afterwards and i had to do it all again. Good luck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve R Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Richard To remove the wires how about putting some oil down it, followed by a bit of wadding then blast it out with an air line, never tried it myself but it might work. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Steve, could it be that the grub screws have loosened and the disk it holds has rotated a bit? The odd feel could just be because the self-cancelling cam is now in the wrong place in relation to the switch mechanism. You still have to withdraw the head to get at it to re-align though. If you disconect the cables there might be enough slack in the wires as they exit the steering box to withdraw the head sufficiently to have a look, without pulling them right back through the stator tube. Safest to tie a pull-cord on them though just in case as Richard says. (I seem to recall you only need to undo the olive if you want to take the stator tube right out ? Granted its a while since I did this). The indicator head is attached to a short length of stator which is a push-fit in the main tube and so holds the switch mechanism to prevent it rotating with the wheel. To re-align you set the wheel straight ahead, undo the grub screws and remove the head. Then turn the disc relative to the head until it is central and self cancels equally both ways. Push the head back without moving the disc, ensuring the tube goes back into the stator. That might be a two-man job as you need to pull on the wires as they go back down the tube. Finally tighten the grub screws to clamp the disc in place. Easier said than done I guess and it took me a couple of goes to get it aligned right. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steve26 Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Hi Rob, I tried your idea. Withdrew the head - I had enough slack without disconnecting all wires. Tried the switch with head away from the wheel. Right indicator now works OK again, but left not. No matter where I position the disc, the left does not work. To test, I bypassed the switch with length of wire the left then works OK. Seems there is a problem in the switch. Is the only solution now to replace the complete head? Regards Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Steve Yes that's about it, you also have to undo the nut and remove the olive at the end of the shaft, before taking it out tie a draw wire to the one of the wires, so you can pull the wire back when you refit it. Steve That is true if you also want to remove the stator tube and not just pull the wire out. Removing the nut & olive will also drain the steering box of its oil/goo. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Steve - as you say it does sound as though the head itself is faulty. Its not something I have ever attemped but a repair is possible. The link below should get you to a previous topic about this and reply no. 20 has a link to a useful 'how to do it' document. http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/50308-control-head-and-tube-questons-and-installation/?hl=%2Bindicator+%2Bswitch&do=findComment&comment=408510 Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) My first inspection would be the security of the 3 retaining grub screws in the steering wheel boss. If they are loose and the mounting disc inside has moved & you will get difficult switch operation in one position where the self cancel mechanism is fighting you. If you turn the steering through 90 degrees does the problem persist? If so it would point toward the screws being loose and the mounting disc rotating. With the steering straight ahead the horn push assy. should be fitted visually in the correct position with the indicator finger at the top. Inside the bent claw that attaches into the mounting disc should be straight down (diametrically opposite the indicator finger.) Then push the whole lot into the steering wheel and lock up the 3 grub screws to retain the disc and horn push assy. If not you need to delve deeper. Take a LOT of photos as you take it to bits as the operating pawls are confusing. Some **** dropped in the top lever slot? Peter W PS Take note from the service manual.... To remove control head and stator tube remove hardtop and/or lower soft top roof. The whole thing is 5 feet long, but does come to bits. Edited May 18, 2015 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steve26 Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 All things considered, ie the switch is not working and the boss is not in very good condition, I think I should order a new replacement. I have seen one on the internet at 'Holden Vintage and Classic'. To remove existing - as far as I can see I need to disconnect all wires (after labelling all), release the nut/olive on the Steering box. Having removed three grub screws from the steering wheel, can I then withdraw the head and wires from the column (having first fixed a draw wire). Fixing new head and wires is reverse of this. I do not understand why most of above replies mention a stator tube. If this is a tube within the steering column containing the wires, I do not understand why I would not be able to withdraw the head and wires without removing the stator. Can anyone enlighten me. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Yes Steve you are correct in your observations. You might be OK and the horn push will pull out of the stator tube leaving it in the column. Tie a bit of wire to the loom so you have a fighting chance of rethreading it back down the tube - unless you buy a nice clean new one with all its wrappings intact. You will have to fit the horn push to the stator tube as it is aligned by a slot and some raised pieces - This is important to stop the whole thing rotating with the steering wheel. That will mean getting the tube at least a few inches out of the column to align and push/slot together. See what works for you when you start the job. In truth I would try to refurb my old one - see the article on the thread mentioned above by Rob on how it's done. You can test it in your hand before fitting to see if the switch self cancels correctly. Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) Yes Steve, the stator tube is within the steering column and clamped at the bottom with the olive and brass nut. You can certainly pull the wires out without removing the tube or undoing the olive provided you arrange the bullet connectors behind one another so that the cableform is thin enough, and keep them arranged that way using sticky tape. Perhaps some people have been unable to do that because the wires have become stuck in the tube for some reason but since yours appear to be free you should have no problem. As Peter says above, putting it back may be a little more complicated... Rob Edited May 18, 2015 by RobH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I installed mine recently and I removed the bullet connectors to make it easier to pull the loom through the stator tube. That went very well and I installed new bullet connectors on the ends of the wires. I tried arranging the wires so the bullet connectors were in a line etc but my patience did not extend to trying to maintain that arrangement and attach a pull wire while keeping the overall diameter less than the stator tube. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steve26 Posted May 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Hi, I have had a change of mind re my steering head, as cost of complete replacement is £200 + with delivery. As it appears to be a long job, and this time of year have lots of shows to attend, thought I would rig up a temporary column mounted switch. and attempt to repair my head later in the year. I now have to re fit the head and fill the steering box with oil. Can anyone give me advice on oil type, I know it has to be thick, but is it available to buy in small quantities? Also, I have located the filler point on the top cover of the steering box, but have read advise on filling through a hole half way up the steering column. I can see a 12mm dia hole about in line with the dynamo, if this is the one, should it not be covered? Thanks, Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BarryC Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Hi Steve The steering box/ column oil filler hole on the column is the hole you identified (fill to hole level). The oil is retained in by a simple rubber/ or modern material push-in/ removable 'plug' - obtainable via the usual TR suppliers. Got mine from Moss via TR Enterprises. Oil as TR Service Manual, EP 90 Gear Oil / (must be) GL4 (as Diff. oil). I use as supplied by Millars. Also Moss / Rimmers etc will provide same suitable. Barry C. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hpremote Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Hi, Steve: the specialists manufacture steering box oil; when I did mine last year I think it was Miller's that I got - in a 1 litre container, and pretty thick... Personally I've found the steering column hole you rightly identify as being for s/box replenishment, to involve too much fiddle and potential mess, to be of use. What I did to fill my car's box was first, to thin up the oil by standing the container in scalding water, and then fill a grease gun with the now less viscous stuff. I cut a couple of lengths of old flexible rubber and transparent fuel piping, fed them together and attached it all to the grease gun nozzle, unscrewed the top-up hole in the s/box, fed the flexible pipe into the aperture and discharged the reasonably fluid oil into the box direct. Seemed to work well. Hth, Tim. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Same here Tim - though I used the similar Penrite Steering Box Lube which also comes in a 1 litre bottle. Its important to put oil in the steering column hole as well though, because that lubricates the upper bearing. I use EP90 oil for that as it has to be thin enough to run down the tube. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 You should always use the upper hole to fill them as otherwise the upper bearing runs dry. Once filled and after a few days go round the front and have a look to see if there is any leakage from the stator tube nut. If disturbed its always better to replace the olive with a new one. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hpremote Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Useful tips, Rob and Stuart. I suspect that the upper bearing may be one of the more neglected components on my car... Now, where's that EP 90? Tim. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steve26 Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Hi, Thanks to you all for your useful comments and advise. I have now completed re assembly of the steering wheel head and stator tube, wired the 'temporary fix' column mounted indicator switch and filled the steering box with oil (through hole in the steering column). Also purchased a rubber grommet for this hole along with the correct oil. I am now up and running again. First job at the end of the year will be to dismantle the head to (hopefully) repair. A job I am now more confident in doing now I know more about the components. Regards Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Hi Steve ~ I fitted a Mini Cooper Mk.2 indicator/headlamp dip/flasher/horn switch to my 3A. This is also self cancelling. If you'd like some photo's of the set-up then please PM me your eMail address. Cheers ~ Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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