F1loco Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Long story short, I ended up having to reset my static timing. Took my time and thought I had it dialed it in. Then I set the carbs and lastly fuel mixture via colortune. Thought it was a bit on the rich side to be safe with a hint of blue at idle. At idle in the garage it ran fine, except when I took it out for a drive, I could hear a "clang" on initial acceleration for a couple of seconds, after that no sound, though it started to run a bit rough after a couple of streets. Noticed my fuel filter (see through type) was not "full". Could this come down to just a fuel pump gone bad? Unscrewed the bowl and pumped the primer, but gas stayed to top of the glass bowl. I noticed when I was dialing it in, it died a couple of times of fuel starvation (no gas at all in the filter), requiring me to re-prime the pump handle. Or is this a timing issue for some reason and I should abandon the static method for ear - advancing the distributor until it starts to stall, and dial it back a bit (what I do in my old Willys). Hate to spend $80 on a new fuel pump it if it is not the cure. I do notice that the distributor is now turned further towards the front/passenger side than before (more clockwise). Guessing the previous owner may have set it the timing at the end of the open on the points and not the beginning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I would recommend that you start from scratch. Get your engine at true TDC and set the distributor to point in the direction of No.1 cylinder as per the workshop manual and then 'fine' adjust the timing with a strobe. Obviously it's important that the crank pulley is marked in the TDC position. Hope this helps. Best regards ~ Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F1loco Posted October 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Unfortunately, strobe not a possibility as the only markings on the pulley are a hole at TDC...also can't get the to crank to rotate the engine with the radiator in....that's why this was my "weekend project" as I also had replace the old fan as the plastic blade began snapping when I tried to set the set the static timing last weekend... Used a test light and thought I had it at the exact moment the point separated when the light kicked on... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TorontoTim Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 To rotate the engine: put the car in gear, leave handbrake (emergency brake) off and rock/roll the car forwards with the distributor cap off until the hole in the pulley wheel is exactly against the marker with the rotor arm pointing at the contact for spark plug #1. This is REALLY easy if you take the plugs out (maybe too easy...) but can be done with the plugs in too. Then you can set the timing at 0 degrees by rotating the distributor (remember to rotate it in the same direction as when the engine is running - otherwise you can set the timing on the wrong side of the "lobe" - I know, I've done it!). Use the fine adjuster to advance it 4 degrees and then give it a try. One thing that is important, as Tom says, is to check that this is TRUE TDC. It's not likely too far out, but if you go through the process again and still have a problem, it may be that the pointer and hole don't actually line up at TDC. I'd suggest going through the whole process first to see how it is before you worry TOO much about "true" TDC, but others may disagree. BTW - apologies if this is all stuff you already know... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately, strobe not a possibility as the only markings on the pulley are a hole at TDC...also can't get the to crank to rotate the engine with the radiator in....that's why this was my "weekend project" as I also had replace the old fan as the plastic blade began snapping when I tried to set the set the static timing last weekend... Used a test light and thought I had it at the exact moment the point separated when the light kicked on... If you don't have advance markings on the pulley (eg if you have a narrow belt conversion) you need a timing lamp that will allow you to dial in the amount of advance you need. You then rotate the distributor to bring the timing marks back into line and you have set the required advance. First, as has been said, you need to be sure that your TDC mark is actually at TDC and for this you need to use a piston stop with number one cylinder on the firing stroke. Bring the piston gently up to the stop and mark the pulley opposite the fixed TDC pointer with a pencil, then rotate the engine backwards to the stop and make another mark. Bisect the marks on the pulley and that is TDC. Don't worry about the inline filter not being full, mine isn't. Edited October 6, 2014 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F1loco Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Missing a piston stop...guess I'll pick one up this week. Do you know what size I need (12, 14, 16, 18mm) and how long it should be, or does it really matter since you are splitting the gap when you hit it in opposite directions? (i.e., just needs to be long enough to make contact with the piston. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F1loco Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 BTW, if I do the neutral roll process, how long of a run do I need to make the rotation through all cylinders, will my driveway distance be enough to cycle through? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Regarding your fuel/gas filter - is this the glass bowl attached to the fuel pump or have you also got an in-line glass filter. The glass bowl attached to the fuel pump should be full - otherwise the pump will just be sucking air (it doesn't do this very well). The fuel tank position should allow fuel to fill the filter bowl by gravity. If it doesn't you have a blockage somewhere. If you have an in-line filter what is its orientation.? It should be vertical and there is an arrow on it to show fule flow direction. Mine is horizontal and there is always air in it but the fuel covers the outlet port. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Hi F1. Plug thread size is 14mm. My piston stop measures 40mm from the shoulder at the top of the thread (butts up against the cylinder head) and the tip of the stop. Like Roger, my inline filter is more or less horizontal. I didn't know they were supposed to be vertical but that's the only way it can go and it works fine with some air in it. If yours is empty then it does sound like you have a fuel pump issue. Edited October 6, 2014 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F1loco Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Thanks to all. Fuel filter is actually more like 45 as I spliced it in from the bottom of the engine bay to the bowl next to the pump. I'll try to double check the timing, but move onto the fuel pump as next suspect. This all started when I thought it was a condenser issue b/c after engine got hot and I would get on it, it was start to sputter, cough and die and would not restart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Ideally the filter should be after the pump as the pump is not suited to sucking (prefers pushing). The filter will also impede the gravity feed from the tank. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately, strobe not a possibility as the only markings on the pulley are a hole at TDC...also can't get the to crank to rotate the engine with the radiator in....that's why this was my "weekend project" as I also had replace the old fan as the plastic blade began snapping when I tried to set the set the static timing last weekend... Used a test light and thought I had it at the exact moment the point separated when the light kicked on... If you put a dab ot white paint on the pulley where the hole is then you can use the strobe/timing light. I would start by setting the engine at TDC and setting the static timing as described in the workshop manual. Are you sure the existing fuel pump is correctly installed ? I have never used a piston stop, you should be able to get a good idea on wether your TDC is correct by the position of the valves and where the distributor arm is pointing, if it points at or close to #1 spark plug lead and both the valves are closed then it is likley that the TDC mark is in the correct place. cheers Alan Edited October 7, 2014 by Kiwifrog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 A single clang when flooring the throttle? Try adding oil to the SU dashpots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F1loco Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Dashpots full. More like a few clangs for about 3 seconds on initial throttle while in gear. Don't hear a thing in the garage idling, though....but it doesn't sound or feel like the tranny, definitely engine... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Try retarding the ignition and see if it goes away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 A 'clang' doesnt sound like pinking. Engine will rock when load imposed, so: Exhaust hitting chassis? Fan hitting something? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 If this has only happened since altering the timing, I would suggest that it is pinking from advanced timing. Retard it as Peejay says above. Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) I did wonder about "clanging" and as it started after a timing change - and with a rich mixture a recipe for pinking if it was over advanced. What sort of a clang is it F1? High pitched tinkling perhaps? Edit: Synchronised brain waves with Graeme. Edited October 7, 2014 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F1loco Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Kind of like diesel clatter, but a bit louder, higher pitched, and more "metallic" sound...almost like it's too lean on a ignition kill and you have run on... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Kind of like diesel clatter, but a bit louder, higher pitched, and more "metallic" sound...almost like it's too lean on a ignition kill and you have run on... That's pinking, aka 'spark knock'. Ignition is too advanced and/or mixture way too lean. Simplest way to set timing is to run warmed-up engine at tickover and turn the disy a few mm to and fro until you get fastest tickover. Then reclamap the disy. If that doesnt get rid of all the pinking richen the mixture until it goes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F1loco Posted October 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 On my Willys when I set the timing by ear there is a much smaller window (like 20 degrees) between advance/retard and the engine starting to stall. I usually just find the split between the point it starts to die and when I start hearing it pinking. On the TR, that spread is more like 45 degrees. Didn't know if it good to split the gap or just set it more at the retarded side of things to be safe (i.e., when it begins to fizzle/die and just advance it a tad). Got a stop piston tool on order to see if TDC was off on the crank pulley. None of the local auto parts stores had one. Go figure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F1loco Posted October 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 UPDATE: Timing was bit off, but once I got it set and was adjusting the carbs, they kept dying after a bit. Checked the floats and both bowls were completely empty. Going to buy a new fuel pump and hope that takes care of things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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