wjr85 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Following on from my previous post on rear axle and suspension assembly I have made a start on the front suspension. See images for progress to date. I purchased a new set of standard road springs for the car but when I set the old one next to it there is a big difference in height. I rang the supplier who said the springs were correct, is it just the new ones compress easier and the old ones are just been naturally compressed over the years. Is this normal ? Should I be alarmed? Should I just go ahead and fit them? Any other pointers at this stage would also be appreciated. Thanks in advance John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Some springs had aluminium spacers on the top others didn't.....is this the difference? Certainly my car has short springs with an aluminium spacer with insulators above and below it. The spacer is on the top of the spring going inside the turret. I would check again with the supplier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Rubbish. Clearly the supplier was not a specialist and need hitting with a stick. I would not mind but we wrote the definitive catalogue for these cars years ago and included this information see Page 69 of the Cox and Buckles/Moss TR2-4A catalogue. The new springs are probably pt no 210903 from a TR4 and do not need the alloy spacer adding at the top, which was fitted originally with the old springs of your TR2/3/3A/3B. If you sit it on the top of the old springs and compare their height to the new 'longer' spring they will be pretty much the same free length. So, do not fit these new springs with the old alloy packing piece as original. Unless you are keen on clearing very tall speed bumps. The new spring will work just fine if you leave out the packing piece on the TR2-3B. My own TR3 has precisely this type of longer spring without packing pieces. Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rodbr Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hi John, Suggest that you fit Poly spring isolators as the rubber ones will not last any time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wjr85 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Thanks guys that was quick, went out and placed the alloy spacer on top of the old spring the way it was originally and there is now little or no difference in height. See images. Rod I already have the poly spring isolators as you can see, there are six of them in total, three for each side. One for the bottom of the spring onto lower spring pan, and one for the top and bottom of the alloy spacer. Obviously I cannot now reuse the alloy spacer with the newly purchased springs, will this have any effect on the finished car, was the original alloy spacer only just that or did it have a technical purpose. Do I now only fit two isolators to each side ie one on the top and bottom of the spring, if so which of the two top one's do I use. Thanks John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wjr85 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Just an after thought before lunch, springs will be difficult enough to fit at this stage. Off with the spring pans again! Any handy tips ? John Edited January 17, 2014 by wjr85 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigmalcy Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 John (and others) I believe that I have fitted the same springs to my 3A, without the aluminium spacers. In my case, I still think that the front of the car is sitting a little 'high'. To confirm this suspicion, there appears to be very little space (5mm or so) between the rubber bump stop on the chassis and the corresponding surface on the underside of the front suspension assembly. The car drives well (although hasn't been pushed hard), so I have left this in the 'attend to later' basket... I'd be interested if anyone has similar experience of this issue... I'm hoping that perhaps the suspension will settle over a few hundred miles or so (the car has only done 280 miles since being back on the road). Malcolm (photo attached which I think shows her sitting a little high at the front end.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigmalcy Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Just an after thought before lunch, springs will be difficult enough to fit at this stage. Any handy tips ? John John We used a thick threaded bar inserted through the spring pan and the spring and then through the hole on the top of the turret. We then wound nuts top and bottom on the bar to compress the spring into place. You will need a very strong plate on the bottom end especially to spread the load across the spring pan... we used a very thick piece of fibreglass coated marine ply on the bottom which did the job after a metal plate splintered on us! The workshop manual provides more detail on how to align the lower wishbones / spring pan etc. Photo below shows what we did. Malcolm PS - it pays to keep fingers clear of any potential pinch points when you're doing this... safety goggles and gloves would be well advised, too... there's a lot of stored energy in the spring once you've compressed it up and I've heard some horrendous stories about what can happen if all that energy is accidentally released in an unfortunate direction! Even the bang is enough to give you a coronary (speaking from experience!). Edited January 17, 2014 by bigmalcy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I believe you will have to remove the bottom plate (between the lower wishbones) before you can fit the spring. Use an internal spring compressor (where the shocker normally goes) & wind up the plate under the new spring until you can get the bolts back in to the wishbones. I have tried using external spring compressors, & they just dont work on a TR because you cannot get them opposite each other. I made my compressor out of some M12 studding, some large washers, & some M12 nuts. & dont forget to fit the bump stop brackets after the shock absorber. This is tricky with no body / engine to compress the spring - I waited till engine was in. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wjr85 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Yes used the same home made tool to remove but I still need to undo the spring pans that I have just fitted, talk about getting ahead of yourself. John PS - Rod, thanks again for the phone call today, it was good to catch up and no doubt I will be speaking to you in the near future as the car progresses. Edited January 17, 2014 by wjr85 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 You could always just put the old springs back in without the spacers if you only want to push the chassis around. A lot less effort to get them in then. Once the weight is on you can replace the old springs with the new longer ones. Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
colin addison Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 John I replaced my front springs on the '2' just a few years ago, having found one broken after an MOT (which was NOT picked up!!!) I bought them from Moss, not wanting anything unusual in the way of uprating etc. I remember they were too long, which I ummed and arghed about for some time, then it dawned on me that if I left out the ally spacer then all looked sensible. Sure enough it looks ok externally, the sills are nicely level etc and it feels good to drive. Yours does look too high at the front, must also be a bit strange to drive?? cheers Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 John. Have you tested the fit of the vertical links in the trunnions - assuming they are new ones ? I got new trunnions from Moss (via the TR shop) & found them very tight. I worked them a bit on the bench, & they seemed to improve so I fitted everything, expecting them to loosen up further after a few miles. Well, they didn't ! steering was quite stiff, & remained so for 200 odd miles (not dangerously stiff you understand, but enough to be annoying). Eventually, I part stipped , & removed the links, cleaned out all the grease, then used some fine grinding paste to loosen up the fit of the coarse thread. It only took a few turns back & forth to improve, cleaned out all the paste, re-greased, & it was much improved. re-built the suspension, & road test - it is still reluctant to completely self centre, but is now very nice to drive - wish I had done this 1st time round. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wjr85 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Bob I am using original trunnions and vertical links, fortunately years ago I purchased a few chassis and incomplete restoration projects when things were cheap, well compared to todays prices. I ended up dismantling the current car and one other rolling chassis before I got a good pair of vertical links and trunnions. Out of the four vertical links one was cracked and the other was badly worn/corroded on the screw threads, the other two have been cleaned and painted for reuse. Out of the four trunnions again only two have been reused as one was worn too much on the shaft and splines and the other was damaged too much by previous owners/mechanics use of a hammer. Before any recon work was done on the items for reuse I tested them to make sure all was OK ie fit, play etc and I feel confident they are fit for the purpose and can be reused. Thanks John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 John. Have you tested the fit of the vertical links in the trunnions - assuming they are new ones ? I got new trunnions from Moss (via the TR shop) & found them very tight. I worked them a bit on the bench, & they seemed to improve so I fitted everything, expecting them to loosen up further after a few miles. Well, they didn't ! steering was quite stiff, & remained so for 200 odd miles (not dangerously stiff you understand, but enough to be annoying). Eventually, I part stipped , & removed the links, cleaned out all the grease, then used some fine grinding paste to loosen up the fit of the coarse thread. It only took a few turns back & forth to improve, cleaned out all the paste, re-greased, & it was much improved. re-built the suspension, & road test - it is still reluctant to completely self centre, but is now very nice to drive - wish I had done this 1st time round. Bob. Your vertical links were obviously very good indeed as the new trunnions are made slightly tight to allow for some wear on the vertical link threads, Apparently. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wjr85 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Stuart See images of one of the vertical links I discounted due to excess wear/corrosion on the threads the only reason I have kept it is for reference purposes and trial fitting of bolts and other fixings, the other one is long gone but it was just as bad and cracked. The other two that I intend to reuse are next the stove drying/ hardening as they were painted over the Christmas period. Before I cleaned and painted them I did trial fit them to the trunnions and thought the fit and level of play was good. Your comment that new trunnions are manufactured to take account of worn links makes me want to check them again as it has been a year since I carried out the original test. Fortunately I bought a new trunnion only a few weeks ago as it came up cheap, I haven't opened the bag yet, but made in Taiwan sticker on bag, so I will use it to assess the difference within the next few days to set my mind at rest. Thanks once again John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 John, what's the profile of the threads on your painted links? They shouldnt be pointy like your rejects. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wjr85 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 To be honest I can't remember as they have been masked up for over a year now, but from memory the threads are not pointy but more square/solid. Due to Stuarts reply I intend to take the masking tape off them over the next few days for another look/ assessment and compare their fit/level of play against the original trunnions and the a new one I recently purchased. Thanks John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 For future reference TR2-3B/TR4 to CT29984 front coil springs (used with an ali spacer) had a free length of 9.75". Later TR4 onward coil springs used without a spacer had a free length of 11.1" Uprated coil springs such as from Triumphtune were reverse wound for positive identification. Carefully check any vertical links being re-used for cracks developing where the trunnion thread meets the plain shank. Viv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Flat topped threads are good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wjr85 Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Viv One of the vertical links I binned was for that reason it was cracked where the treads meet the link. Thanks John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) This is what your threads should look like, flat topped,.4a one pictured. Be aware that a lot of the cheap repro trunnions wont last very long, the new Moss ones are so much better than any of the rest around. Stuart. Edited January 18, 2014 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Hi John. Send me a PM with your email address on, & I will send some photos of my chassis build up last summer. Too many to put on the forum ! Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wjr85 Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Bob PM sent with my email address John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wjr85 Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Bob Thanks for the photos, really enjoyed looking at them as they seem to be a mirror image of what I am doing at the moment, I just hope my end product comes close to yours. Many thanks one again John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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