TR4A Seat-rebuild

[AlanT]

It seems that no-one is interested in doing anything else but swapping to MX5 seats.

 

However I am doing a full TR4A seat rebuild at present and if ANYONE is interested I will post some of the details of doing this.

 

Otherwise I'll shut up and just get on with it.

 

Al.

 

 

 

 

[RogerH]

Hi Al,

I think the TR4A seats are comfy and can do 100's of miles without complaint (as can Sue).

 

Do post your pics as there will be a silent bunch out there thankful of info.

 

Roger

[TrRob]

Al,

 

I'm interested. Do post your pictures,

 

Rob

[Paul Harvey]

Original 4A seats are perfect for the original TR experience.

Nice and supple but with plenty of support even though they're not adjustable in any way.

Even at speed you can slide around and wedge yourself in the corners.

If you want MX5 seats you're probably better off with an MX5!

 

So get on with it Al, but show us the pictures!

Edited February 9, 2013 by Paul Harvey

[AlanT]

Thanks for the encouragement. Photos I haven't got yet. This is just the stuff I've found out so far.

 

1. the old seats are really easy to take apart

2. the frames are a bit weak and need some re-inforcement, one of mine has a few cracks

3. the covers are GLUED into the foams - this is UNUSUAL and TRICKY

4. if you check the net, for help with seats, you see mostly they have wires in the covers and these pull into the foams with "hog-rings"

5. the original foams were made by injecting foam into moulds and the backs especially have weird shapes

 

I am doing mine in Grey leather with Blue piping. I got the leather and the foams from John Skinner.

The leather work is excellent. The foams less so.

 

The bottoms are supplied in two parts. One "seat-shaped", the other a "horse-shoe" shape.

This is a fair approximation to the original moulded part.

 

The backs come as one part but are built up, similar to the bottoms, using a softer grade of foam.

They don't really have enough shape to fill the covers. They would probably be OK with Vinyl, but the leather needs

more "push" from the foam to get the right shape.

 

There are several really good on-line foam suppliers who cut to size. So I bought some extra and built the backs up somewhat.

 

Photos to follow.

 

Al.

[ron88]

I am very interested in photos etc, having just spent "too much" in my mind to have my seats re-stuffed with new bottoms and foam.

 

Does anyone have hints to getting rid of - or making less visible - cuts and scrapes in leather? My biggest problem comes from someone who recovered and replaced the seats years ago, and the month it took me to figure out he had put them in on the wrong side - so that the driver seat was on the passenger side, etc. The result was a series of cuts and scrapes on the drivers/passenger seat catching on the folded down hood frame.

 

I have heard: black shoe polish, also small bits of leather-like substance that can be "ironed on" over the scrapes.

 

Any suggestions for making these cuts and scrapes less visible would be welcome.

[AlanT]

Interesting videos on Youtube about leather restoration.

 

Al.

[RogerH]

Hi Ron,

I think Renovo do products to help with scuffing

 

Roger

[frank_s]

Absolutely with you on re-doing the TR4A seats - planning mine this spring in black vinyl/white piping. Very keen to learn from your experience! Do post pictures and words.

Frank

[AlanT]

Unless you can find somewhere to buy moulded foams with the right shape, then you will wind up with parts glued together to approximate the right shape.

 

If I were doing this again I wouldn't buy foam from a "car source".

I'd get all the parts cut to a size, that suited me, from:

 

http://foamshop.co.uk/custom-cut-foam?gclid=CLGTs_6nq7QCFbMbtAodqWMAFw

 

I choose them because their web-tool is easy to work with. The foam is more or less all the same I think.

 

The bases were originally a grey material called Vitafoam, which suffers from time, more than the backs.

Basically it turns to dust when you rub it a bit.

 

The backs are a yellow foam and mine were nearly re-usable. Actually these are two moulded parts glued together.

 

You want a stiff grade on the seat base. Most suppliers have a white material to suit this.

And a softer material for the back. This is usually grey of perhaps blue.

 

You can research foam grades on the net quite easily. This is interesting:

 

http://www.efoam.co.uk/foamtypes.html

 

I reckon there is a saving of £100 to be had, plus you will get a better fit and you will save some time

fiddling with foams that don't quite work.

 

Start with about 20mm bigger all round than the old foams. You can always cut a bit off! Or glue a bit on.

 

Al.

Edited February 13, 2013 by AlanT

[AlanT]

I have now completed the tricky business of glueing all four covers into the foams.

 

The factory did this with impact adhesive and probably had a jig to line them up.

I was just too chicken to try this because if you dont get it all in the right place first time then you will need to tear the foam to re-position it.

 

I chose to use Tiger PU sealant instead. This can be squeezed in so that it infiltrates the tiny bubbles in the foam. It also bonds well to leather.

 

Remember that the foams have a "horseshoe shaped" outer-part bonded to a "full-width" inner-part.

I had made this bond using the "high temperature" upholstery adhesive from Woollies.

When this is set it leaves a tough rubber membrane between the two pieces of foam.

I double coated so as to get a tougher layer.

 

The covers have a "flange" formed by four layers of material all meeting at one place. I used the impact adhesive to lock all these layers together and make one stubby section, about 1/4 wide, that needs fixing to the foam.

 

I cut into the inner foam, by about 3/8 in, so as to make a pocket for the flange on the seat cover, underneath the adhesive bond layer.

This means that the tension in the seat-cover is pulling the flange up against this bonded layer.

 

I filled this pocket with the PU. This took 3 or 4 beads to get enough in. I used one whole tube of PU to do all four covers.

 

The seat-cover flange can now be easily located in this pocket and weighted down, I used house-bricks while the PU sets. You have at least half an hour in which to get it in the right place.

 

There is a tendency for the foam to "spread" at the end where the "horse-shoe is open. I put one side of the foam up against a wall and wedged the other side with my Workmate to keep the foam in shape.

 

Doing it this way the job is "stress-free" and I got all the covers locked in just as I wanted them to be.

 

Photos follow when my new camera arrives.

 

Al.

Edited February 16, 2013 by AlanT

[AlanT]

http://flickr.com/gp/90670218@N04/5327Rs/

 

You can see the following:

 

1. the way I have added extra "wedges" using white foam between the original grey layers

 

2. the "scrim-foam" added to the sides to help get the right profile

 

3. the old foam and new foam side by side so you can compare their sections

 

4.the 'pocket" left in the old foam by removing the old cover

 

5. the white foam, two pieces, generating a good approximation to the original seat-base

 

6. the "flange" on the new cover locked in underneath the "horsehoe" upper layer

 

7. the grey foam added around the outside so as to fill the cover as required

 

Al.

Edited February 23, 2013 by AlanT

[AlanT]

So now I am into the seat-frames.

 

Its always been that one of the rubber feet didn't sit on the runner quite right. Now I know why!

 

http://flickr.com/gp/90670218@N04/M2MewD/

 

You can see the position of the threaded bush for the rubber differs between the two seats.

One of these plates was just made completely wrong.

 

You can see I've re-drilled it now and can weld the fixing back when its warm enough for welding jobs!

There is quite a bit of welding to do on these.

 

Al.

[Vic787]

Alan, well done I am looking forward to seeing your completed seats. I am a time served Coach Trimmer but left the job to pursue my career at the end of my seven year apprenticeship 1966. I have done what you have done for myself and others over the years but make my own leather/vinyl covers. You are to be applauded for your initiative.

[AlanT]

Thanks for your feedback. Presently I am working on adding head-rests.

 

This is because my wife has a neck problem which she got in a car accident in the USA on a "bench-seat".

 

I'm not quite ready to write about this yet. Would be but its too cold for welding!

 

Al.

[mleadbeater]

Hi

 

I am in need of some seats for my TR2, and was wondering about fitting TR4A seats, so if anyone could measure the seat cushion and backrest width on their car, this would be very helpfull,

 

or, do you know if they would fit or not?

 

Cheers

 

Mike L

[stuart]

They wont fit Im afraid. Too wide.

Stuart.

[AlanT]

Width of seat is 17in.

Backs are 18 in at widest point.

 

Check the pic of my frames above to see the shape.

 

BTW my frames got sand-blasted today.

 

Al.

[pfenlon]

I don't know why folk condemn people who fit other types of seats in their TR's.

 

Its a choice we have, if you want a bit more comfort over longer journeys and modern seating can provide it, I don't see a problem.

To say you should have an MX5 if you fit their seats is also a personal opinion, but not mine.

 

I would love to see pics of before and after, your seat reconditioning Alan, for even people with other seats can benefit from the experience of others.

 

All power to your elbow.

[AlanT]

Well I expect I'll upset someone because they will have TR6 style head-rests.

 

Here is an interesting thing about the frames that I found out after they were blasted.

One of mine has a crack right in the middle of the bend. I ground this out so as to a "weld in the V".

 

There is a short section with another tube inside it. This is basically re-inforcement and greatly eases the task of re-welding this.

 

Al.

[mleadbeater]

Al, Stuart, thanks for the reply.

 

I have another 'seat'question: are TR2 seat backs narrower than TR3?

 

I have some used TR3 covers which I scrounged to use as patterns but they seem too wide for the seat frames I got with my part-restored car.

 

I have a very good offer from a local trimmer who would send old covers plus my new new hide, obtained at a bargain price on Ebay, to China, they will make new patterns and covers, all for £150, so I need either TR2 old covers for patterns ( if they are natrrower) or wider seat frames, ex TR3?

 

I also plan to make my my own seat base foams, by ordering foam 'wedges' from a foam supplier. From memory when I last bought foam for an XK 150 I was restoring ( about 20 years ago ) they did 3 grades of foam firmness, soft/medium/firm, has anyone experience/recomendatons for the suitable grade for seat bases for a TR2/3.

 

Cheers

 

Mike L

[AlanT]

See:

 

http://foamshop.co.uk/custom-cut-foam

 

the white "extra firm" is about the same as the stuff that John Skinner supplies for TR4A seat-bases.

the grey "stately range" medium is about the same as John skinner uses for the seat-backs.

 

How wide is a TR2 seat base? The 4A frames are 17in at the top and could be squeezed in at the bottom to 17in without much effort.

Standard 4A covers would fit on a 17 in wide back. All that would happen is that the "piping" would move backwards by 1/2in.

 

Al.

[Vic787]

When I imported my car it came with Type 1 E Type Jaguar seats, I passed these on and got hold of a set of TR4A seats which do the job but mine should be the type 1 TR4 bucket seats, similar to the TR3.

I have advertised wants, for years without success for these seats. If anyone wants to fit other types of seat to their TR and want to sell their Type 1 bucket seats, I am here.

cheers

Vic

Edited March 29, 2013 by Vic787

[Vic787]

When I imported my car it came with Type 1 E Type Jaguar seats, I passed these on and got hold of a set of TR4A seats which do the job but mine should be the type 1 TR4 bucket seats, similar to the TR3.

I have advertised wants, for years without success for these seats. If anyone wants to fit other types of seat to their TR and want to sell their Type 1 bucket seats, I am here.

cheers

Vic

[Vic787]

When I imported my car it came with Type 1 E Type Jaguar seats, I passed these on and got hold of a set of TR4A seats which do the job but mine should be the type 1 TR4 bucket seats, similar to the TR3.

I have advertised wants, for years without success for these seats. If anyone wants to fit other types of seat to their TR and want to sell their Type 1 bucket seats, I am here.

cheers

Vic

Edited March 29, 2013 by Vic787