Scissor Lift

[Motorsport Mickey]

Hi Richard,

 

I spoke to Strongman about mine before filling with oil and using and they say there is no requirement to bleed any air out before use. They said to operate the ramps up and down about 6 times which dissipates any air and allows it to permeate back to the reservoir and thence to atmosphere. This sounds like pretty much what you have just done ! I should try this again and also check on the oil level in the reservoir before lifting the rams to ensure there's 6 litres (which is the capacity in mine). Which is what Neil has just said but in shorthand !

 

I presume the ramps are not touching an any of the crosstubes (segments cut into the ramps) I realise it was ok but worth checking in case of a movement somewhere.

 

Mick Richards

[Richard71]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen, but none of the above I'm afraid, it does however seem to be hydraulic related, the reason I say is because when I roll the car over the ramps the weight is enough to force it closed.

 

Time to get the tools back in the van ready for work tomorrow and call it a day, will call Automotech tomorrow and report back.

 

Cheers!

[Richard71]

This is the diagnosis of the scissor lift problem after two days of telephone callas between myself & Automotech.

 

The torsion bar, the only component actually connecting both ramps has slightly twisted due to an uneven load distribution (one ramp taking far more weight than the other) caused either by making an ar$e of placing the pads or a malfunctioning air lock piston valve, the latter is the most likely.

 

They offer me two options. First option......I send them back the lift and they send me a new one FOC......not an option, no piggin' way is that an option! It was a bloody nightmare getting that contraption settled into it's new home, it's staying there and never coming out, I'd sooner concrete over the hole than attempt to retrieve it!!!

 

Second option.....they send me a replacement torsion bar FOC and I fit it myself. I'd sooner punt myself at Kings X for a job, it looks a b@llache! I've precious little time to work on the car let alone carry out scissor lift repairs, but it's the lesser of two evils, so that's what I'm opting for.

 

Oh, and two new pilot v/v replaced FOC too.

 

Thanks from a miserable Richard!

[Motorsport Mickey]

Sorry to hear that Richard and I sympathise with the thought of lifting an over 500kg Scissor lift from out of it's hole, but I think that this is one of the times where the more difficult method will long term be the easiest !

 

If they supply you with a torsion bar you will be left with scrabbling about in a hole trying to dismantle unfamiliar equipment which when you eventually have replaced it if there is still a problem opens up other avenues of supplier get out. Only my opinion but I'd be pulling the lift and asking them to send a new one via their courier who can collect the defective lift and take it back. Only guarantee of a good result and doing one job only, if I was local I'd offer to drop in and help, if you can get 3 or 4 people together the lift will pop out of its hole like a bad tooth. I've thought on how I'd lift mine and a strap on the torsion bar or the jack lifting point at the front attached to a trolley jack should give the lift required to get it up 6" or so above the garage surface. Crossbar across underneath at the front to take the weight and then trolley jack to the back, ( two jacks would make it easier) and a similar job there to lift the rear.

 

Mick Richards

[TR NIALL]

What's wrong with good old Service Engineers for Equipment under Warranty,not a very good outcome I'm afraid.

[Guest ntc]

If fitted as per there instruction's then it is there problem end of ie fit for purpose

[Richard71]

Thanks for the suggestion Mick, and I don't wish to offend, 3 or 4 strong guys would be ambitious to say the least, it was 3 or 4 strong guys who struggled to drag & drop it in into the pit, and that was with the assistance of gravity. It would take great logistics and mechanical handling plant to retrieve the blessed thing, get it into the street, unload it's replacement and place it in the hole.....not an attractive solution. Though I do see what you mean that it could render me responsible for any further problems should I carry out the repair myself. I never mentioned that not only does one ramp raise itself higher than the other, it doesn't fully go to rest either by the same distance (1"-2").

 

Not had the time to go have another inspection tonight, but that torsion bar is made of pretty sturdy stuff, would take some doing to bend let alone twist as the company suggest, twisting something that rigid would give it more of a tendency to snap me thinks and if it were bent, then the lift would be bouncing all over the place whilst in operation.

 

Another discussion with the company tomorrow is in order, I keep getting a guy on the phone who talks to the engineer, who gives the guy on the phone advice, who passes the info onto me. Need to speak to the engineer myself as looking at the schematic I'm not 100% convinced the torsion bar is the problem. I think somehow a locking peg has jumped a tooth somehow, hence the 1"-2".

 

Getting on a bit this saga, it'll end up with it's own sub-forum .

[Motorsport Mickey]

Hi Richard,

 

Locking peg ? are you talking about the mechanical safety lock on each ramp ? If so and the ramps are starting from the same down position, when you power up the lift as long as the hydraulic pressure is the same in each pipe and all things are equal then surely the ramps will go up together equal ? and also the same when lowering, the pneumatic override lifting or disconnecting the safety lock and the ramp then dropping on the dissipating oil pressure in the rams and pipes ?

 

I think talking to their engineer sounds the way forward, as you say the torsion bar on mine as yours must be the best part of 100mm dia and very difficult to molest !

 

Mick Richards

[Richard71]

That's right Mick, the mechanical safety lock, a long arm with a hook type peg on the end which drops into the teeth as you raise the ramps. And as you ask, no, the ramps are now never at the same height, either at rest or in operation, one being 1"-2" higher than the other, suggesting to me that the locking arm on one has somehow jumped forward a tooth. I'll try to explain clearer, at it's lowest floor level position, power off, no air or hydraulic pressure, one ramp is flush with the garage floor (as desired) and the other remains that 1"-2" inches higher. Now here's one, in this position when the weight of the car is rolled over, the higher ramp has some spring in it, suggesting the hydraulic ram still has some play thus supporting my theory that just somehow the safety has jumped forward a tooth, if the torsion bar was indeed twisted or bent then I should think the entire apparatus would rock and wobble.

 

Taking into account your good advice on avoiding fitting the replacement bar myself (if it does come to that), I doubt they will send any of their service engineers North of Scotch Corner, then I'll insist they get a garage local garage equipment guy to visit for half a shift, those guys are all over the place, 10 a penny.

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Richard,

 

perhaps time to remind the manufacturers of the kind of scenario that might result if this damn lift does something nasty with you under it . . . . there's an awful lot of chaps heard about your problem already, and if push came to shove we could make damn sure that their operation comes to an end and with the maximum financial pain.

 

Perhaps refer them to this discussion ?

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Richard71]

Exactly Alec, hence the reason I'd insist on a garage equipment mechanic to carry out any repair.

 

Anyways, will have to speak to their engineer directly tomorrow, I'm sure there's something getting lost in translation.

 

Richard.

[PJM]

Send it back, perhaps use an engine hoist to lift it out of the hole?

[Gordon Bayley]

I also had trouble making my lift to lower , I looked at everything, then the onerous ,,,,,,,make shore the air compressor is on and the correct pressure,

 

the air pressure lifts the locking bar.

[Matt]

Hi Richard,

 

Having worked for a major automotive equipment manufacturer I would say return it or get them out to fix it. There is no way you should be able to bend a torsion bar without significant damage or stress to other parts. As per an early post if you fit the parts and there is a problem with a future failure the onus will unfortunately pass to you as to how competent the repair was. I know that may sound OTT but with a lift that is carrying a car with you under it, it always best to err on the side of caution. Also they legally should have a duty of repair or replacement.

 

Good luck,

 

Matt

[Richard71]

Hi Matt,

 

Thanks for that. Drawing on your experience, how easy or difficult is to bend or twist a torsion bar and by how far to cause one platform to sit 2" higher than the other? After all, there isn't a great deal of weight in TR6.

 

Richard.

[Matt]

Hi Richard,

 

The only way I could see that happening is if the locking mechanism only locked on one side, 2" is a sizeable drop.

 

Drop me a PM with your contact number, I'll give you a call in the morning.

 

Matt

[Andrew Smith]

Just to clarify guys, the Automotech and also the Strongman Clifton Scissor lift ( which I have just bought ) have an inner spacing of 820mm between the ramps, the Automotech is similar. The ramps on the Strongman are 500mm wide.

 

If you check a TR4 ( and no doubt similar on side screen cars ) they have an OUTSIDE chassis width at the rear of 762mm and so would fall within the inner line of the ramps and so will require a couple of small cross beams for the chassis to sit on with rubber spacer blocks on top. I decided that I'd rather have a couple of moveable cross beams to allow full underside access down the middle utilising the excellent unencumbered access of the lift ( no hydraulic rams or fixed beams fitted) rather than compromise underside access and working space by having a lift with closer positioned ramps.

 

Mike,

 

I'm considering buying one of these scissor lifts (probably the Automotech 3.2T - Link) - could you please post some photos of the cross beams in situ?

 

Also, did you run the hydraulic cabling under the floor or does it run on the surface to the control unit?

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Motorsport Mickey]

Mike,

 

I'm considering buying one of these scissor lifts (probably the Automotech 3.2T - Link) - could you please post some photos of the cross beams in situ?

 

Also, did you run the hydraulic cabling under the floor or does it run on the surface to the control unit?

 

Cheers

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

 

I've yet to develop a suitable crossbar to use on the Lift, not having put my Stag or TR on it yet. As you may expect the crossbar is not at all technical comprising of a U section beam about 1.5 metre long and with a channel profile of about 2-3 inches tall.

 

This then allows for the clear space between the ramps of 820mm and an overlap of the channel of about 350mm onto each scissor lift ramp. If you think this not enough you could extend the overhang up to 500mm on each ramp of the scissor lift giving an overall length of 1820mm, but I think I'll stick with the smaller overlap making the beam more manoeuvrable. Tim has a similar beam which he uses and sent me a photo of his TR6 mounted on it, I have no objection to posting it but of course I shall ask for his approval first.

 

Regarding the Hydraulic pipe from the Hydraulic power pack to the scissor lift you could leave it on the surface if you wished but of course then keep tripping on it or damaging it. I asked the builder and when he was cutting the floor also got him to cut an 8" slot about 110mm deep from the end of the ramp direct to underneath the Hydraulic power pack. This then has the single hydraulic feed pipe from the power pack (which I have screwed to the wall) which goes into a steel splitter block with a dual out feed which carries the two pipes one each for each scissor ramp. Also enclosed in the slot is the Pneumatic air feed pipe which goes from the compressor to the connector which splits the air into another two pipes which feed one safety mechanical lock for each ramp, this only needs about 50lbs pressure to lift the air locks. The slot in the floor has been closed with a 5mm steel plate let into the floor again flush with the surface of the concrete and then rubber tiled over. Writing it down it sounds more complex than it is !

 

 

Try this excellent "how to fit your Clifton Scissor lift" you tube video, shows the scissor lifts in detail and will likely apply to the Automotech also.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mooX9IW3V4

 

 

Mick Richards

Edited March 22, 2014 by Motorsport Mickey

[Andrew Smith]

Hi Mick,

 

Thanks for the tip and video - very useful.

 

Look forward to anything photos you can post.

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Eddie Cairns]

There is a picture here from strongmantools of a cross bar on one of their full height scissor lifts.

 

http://gb.pinterest.com/pin/326933254169840216/

[Richard71]

Just an update.

 

My scissor lift went back to the supplier last week and is now repaired. The offending article turned out to be a sticky/faulty locking mechanism (pneumatic piston) as Matt suggested. Of course they asked if my compressed air is lubricated, which it is, even if it weren't it shouldn't malfunction after only half a dozen or so up & down cycles.

 

Thanks again to all for the replies on this. Should be back working on the car in 2-3 weeks!

 

Richard.

[Motorsport Mickey]

Just an update.

 

My scissor lift went back to the supplier last week and is now repaired. The offending article turned out to be a sticky/faulty locking mechanism (pneumatic piston) as Matt suggested. Of course they asked if my compressed air is lubricated, which it is, even if it weren't it shouldn't malfunction after only half a dozen or so up & down cycles.

 

Thanks again to all for the replies on this. Should be back working on the car in 2-3 weeks!

 

Richard.

Good news Richard, on with the work you will really feel the benefit of a lift, there's so many jobs where you need it up and down like a Fiddlers elbow adjusting first one thing and then another. It's so nice to have the car safe but mobile upwards and down without the ball ache of jacking and blocking constantly.

 

Mick Richards

[Richard71]

My thoughts exactly Mick, but I must admit, lately I've came pretty close to filling the recess in with concrete. Will organise transport tomorrow, lift back in the garage thereafter, my painter is doing a few wee jobs on the car while he has it for storage, so I'll give him the heads-up tomorrow, so maybe get my own hands on the car within two weeks....where's the IWE next year? I might make that one!!!

 

Richard.