Machiel Kalf Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Dear TR4 friends, This week, the 24th of this month, I wrote a topic for this register. Today I see that 100 viewers have seen this topic. Not one give a reply. Of course, you are 100% free with that. But, the "problem" is, that most people don't realise what it means in terms of value (of the car) if there is a Lawrence Tune engine in. I know that some Morgans +4's, with a TR3 or TR4 engine do more than the double price of the original +4's. There is a Vauxhall 4/90 under restoration at the moment. I think under normal conditions it's not a good step to restore an Vauxhall of this type. But, because this car has a LT engine and some race history, you should be surprised about the value of this car. Are you sure, there isn't a LT engine in some of the TR4's in your club? For indentification: Mostly 42mm Weber carburators, Special Lawrence Tune inlet manifolds and a "hotter" camshaft. The cranshafts where balanced by Brabham. You always can call me on 00 31 6 41776237. Look forward to your response, Machiel Kalf Holland. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Hi Machiel, welcome to the forum. I have no technical knowledge of these engines but there is a post (DOHC TR4) that mentions these mod'd engines. I've never seen one myself. From a historical point of view it would be good to have a working one within the Register. Keep looking you will find them. Roger PS - I see that you have already looked at DOHC TR4. Edited September 28, 2012 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
parky Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 I have a book, Triumph TR Maintenance and Modification & Tuning by J.L.S. Maclay and in it is details of the Lawrencetune engine. He won the 2 ltr class at Le Mans. When you look at the price of some of the equipment then it was expensive. Cyl head £195.00, Tecalemit Jackson fuel injection equipment, £75.00. Makes very intresting reading. A couple of pictures as well, they show one car with Weber's and one with 4 SU's, dates form 1961. Parky Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Are you interested in any Lawrencetune engine or just those with the cross-flow head? If you include the former, with modified TR head, then there may be a few in TRs but the owners may not realise. Were they identifiable externally as Lawrencetune? If anyone has a TR with the cross-flow head, then registrars Mike Ellis and Jon Marshall may know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 I have a book, Triumph TR Maintenance and Modification & Tuning by J.L.S. Maclay .... Hard to find in hard copy but there is a PDF version online here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/29352060/TR-Maintenance-Modification-Tuning Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) An employee of Chris Lawrence, a con artist who's name I forget, murdered Dave Martin, a friend of mine and got life. He'd sold him a couple of helicopters a Cortina Savage and a Deep Sanderson, but all were incomplete and non functioning I believe. Dave was a mug, but got the chap to sign and undertaking to repay £200,000. He hadn't got any money so he went round and shot Dave and hid the body. They never found it. Edited September 28, 2012 by Ashley James Quote Link to post Share on other sites
david ferry Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 An employee of Chris Lawrence, a con artist who's name I forget, murdered Dave Martin, a friend of mine and got life. He'd sold him a couple of helicopters a Cortina Savage and a Deep Sanderson, but all were incomplete and non functioning I believe. Dave was a mug, but got the chap to sign and undertaking to repay £200,000. He hadn't got any money so he went round and shot Dave and hid the body. They never found it. Colin James....Surprised you forgot that name! David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 I'm hopeless with names, even my own, but he and Chris tucked Dave Martin up with all sorts of old rubbish and he, having just sold his company, was spending like there was no tomorrow. There wasn't for him! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 There was once a school of thought that suggested that a Lawrencetune TR engine was something to be got rid of as quick as possible, before it let go in other words. That would certainly be my approach. No question that Chris Lawrence was a talented engineer on occasion, but some of his development paths proved to be expensive blind alleys, the TR crossflow head being a prime example, and his business career was, shall we say, chequered. The Vauxhall engines were all Bill Blydenstein's work in any case . . . . . a fine engineer who rarely made mistakes, and whose word you could trust. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willie Felger Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Hello Machiel, A long time ago - 1970 I think - I bought the crashed remains of a racing TR3 when I was stationed at RAF Laarbruch in Germany. I think it was a Belgian one because it had the cable operated overdrive. The Weber carbs had been "liberated" by an army chap for his Mini (philstine!) but I got the rest of the engine and the gearbox. The cylinder head was a conventional non - crossflow one but nicely gas flowed and the cam was by Iskenderian. I tried to use the engine in a road car but it was hopeless as it oiled plugs and generally misbehaved. I kept the head and the rotating bits but the cam and the slipper pistons had to go. The engine went very well with a standard cam and pistons/liners and was still in the car when I sold it several years later. The Lawrencetune alloy rocker cover was a plain rectangular lump and probably worth a fortune now! Happy days! Willie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Machiel Kalf Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Hi Machiel, welcome to the forum. I have no technical knowledge of these engines but there is a post (DOHC TR4) that mentions these mod'd engines. I've never seen one myself. From a historical point of view it would be good to have a working one within the Register. Keep looking you will find them. Roger PS - I see that you have already looked at DOHC TR4. Dear Roger, Thanks for your reply. Yes, I know something about this type of cylinder head. In front of me, on my desk is a "press paper" : one of those crazy big rockers. I hope that one of the members of the TR register will reconise the real "TR engine". Thanks and best regards, Machiel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Machiel Kalf Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I have a book, Triumph TR Maintenance and Modification & Tuning by J.L.S. Maclay and in it is details of the Lawrencetune engine. He won the 2 ltr class at Le Mans. When you look at the price of some of the equipment then it was expensive. Cyl head £195.00, Tecalemit Jackson fuel injection equipment, £75.00. Makes very intresting reading. A couple of pictures as well, they show one car with Weber's and one with 4 SU's, dates form 1961. Parky Dear Parky, do you want me to sell that book? I look forward to your reply. Thanks in advance, Machiel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Machiel Kalf Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Are you interested in any Lawrencetune engine or just those with the cross-flow head? If you include the former, with modified TR head, then there may be a few in TRs but the owners may not realise. Were they identifiable externally as Lawrencetune? If anyone has a TR with the cross-flow head, then registrars Mike Ellis and Jon Marshall may know. Dear Brian, I am interested in everything that hs to do with Lawrence Tune. Documentation, parts, etc. Lawrence Tune engines are easy to indentify. Most of them have a aluminium manifold for two Weber carburettors. "The text "Lawrence Tune" is to see on the tubes of the manifold. Sometimes 42mm DCOE's are fixed. The rocker cover can be a special Lawrence Tune example. Of course there is a special camshaft in the engine. Could me a Iskendarian camshaft. Hope that you bring more news. Thanks, Machiel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Machiel Kalf Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 An employee of Chris Lawrence, a con artist who's name I forget, murdered Dave Martin, a friend of mine and got life. He'd sold him a couple of helicopters a Cortina Savage and a Deep Sanderson, but all were incomplete and non functioning I believe. Dave was a mug, but got the chap to sign and undertaking to repay £200,000. He hadn't got any money so he went round and shot Dave and hid the body. They never found it. Hallo, What a story. I think this fits perfect in the Lawrence Tune story. I am not surprised, ha, ha,... Machiel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Machiel Kalf Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Hello Machiel, A long time ago - 1970 I think - I bought the crashed remains of a racing TR3 when I was stationed at RAF Laarbruch in Germany. I think it was a Belgian one because it had the cable operated overdrive. The Weber carbs had been "liberated" by an army chap for his Mini (philstine!) but I got the rest of the engine and the gearbox. The cylinder head was a conventional non - crossflow one but nicely gas flowed and the cam was by Iskenderian. I tried to use the engine in a road car but it was hopeless as it oiled plugs and generally misbehaved. I kept the head and the rotating bits but the cam and the slipper pistons had to go. The engine went very well with a standard cam and pistons/liners and was still in the car when I sold it several years later. The Lawrencetune alloy rocker cover was a plain rectangular lump and probably worth a fortune now! Happy days! Willie Hallo Willie, To be honest, I have a TR4 Lawrence Tune engine in my Morgan +4 Super Sports (1965). The camshaft is: Iskederian. The car goes VERY good. Maybe something elase was wrong...... Oh, my engine has 2 42mm DCOE carburettors. Yes, the rocker covers are "expensive"!! Thanks for your reply. Machiel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Machiel Kalf Posted October 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Hard to find in hard copy but there is a PDF version online here: http://www.scribd.co...fication-Tuning Dear Parky, Please, let me know if you like to sell this book. If you like, I pick it up at your place. We love to visit The UK and meet friends with the same interest. You can contact me at: machielkalf@hetnet.nl or call me at: 00 31 6 41776237. Please,.............. Hope to hear soon, Machiel Kalf. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4Tony Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Hi One of my spare engines is an original Lawrencetune TR4 spec affair, with all the right bits in in but a special looking race cam - which why I haved really used it. The block was originally painted a light pistachio green colour, perhaps the head too but less clear. It has both the alloy rocker cover and the twin weber manifolds, DCOE 42 carbs and a rather nicely lightened steel flywheel, which clearly started life as a standard TR4 item. Currently sitting on wooden blocks in storage ! Regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Machiel Kalf Posted October 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Hi One of my spare engines is an original Lawrencetune TR4 spec affair, with all the right bits in in but a special looking race cam - which why I haved really used it. The block was originally painted a light pistachio green colour, perhaps the head too but less clear. It has both the alloy rocker cover and the twin weber manifolds, DCOE 42 carbs and a rather nicely lightened steel flywheel, which clearly started life as a standard TR4 item. Currently sitting on wooden blocks in storage ! Regards Tony Dear Tony, That's realy great news. Glad you found this topic at this forum. Is it possible that you contact me direct? My Email address is: machielkalf@hetnet.nl My mobile number is 00 31 6 41776237 We try to organise a "Lawrence Tune Society". No, not a official club, but more a group of people with interest in "everything that has to do with Lawrence Tune". We try to find documentation about the products Chris Lawrence has made. That could be Deep Sanderson Sports or Formula Junior racing cars. Monica saloon cars or, cars with an engine tuned by Lawrence Tune. FINALLY we found someone like you with a Lawrence Tune TR engine for a TR car. Can you sent me a photo of the engine? Waauw I am over the moon by this news. Hope to hear from you soon, Machiel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
parky Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Hi Machiel, Sorry book not for sale at present. Parky Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Hi Machiel, PM Sent Bill G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Downes Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 The Vauxhall engines were all Bill Blydenstein's work in any case . . . . . Whilst Chris Lawrence was no saint, to quote from a magazine article by Bill Blydenstein recounting racing in Europe with Lawrence. "Our joint development of the 1.5-lire Vauxhall VX 490 sports saloon turned out to be a fascinating exercise which started to show some promise towards the end of April '63....Chris (Lawrence) decided to enter the VX 490 in the saloon car race...." In addition the Vauxhall has recently come to light and displays special Lawrencetune inlet manifolds from the period, it is currently being prepared for Historic racing next year. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Thanks Andy, it's always useful to add extra insights, much appreciated. Years ago Bill wasn't too complementary about the relationship, but mayhap mellowed with the passing years !! Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malocomotion Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hello all, nice picture on page 72....http://www.scribd.com/doc/29352060/TR-Maintenance-Modification-Tuning ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Downes Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Hello Alec, Yes I think one either loved Chris Lawrence or hated him, and even if you loved him it seems you generally fell out with him sooner or later ! I didn't know him personally but have heard so many stories... have a look at Gordon Spice's autobiography for a particularly painful one. The Dangerfield TRs were certainly quick enough, and he was a mainstay for Morgans in the 60s - part of his legacy is the current eligibility at Le Mans Classic, Goodwood etc historic events. Along with Machiel Kalf from Holland we come from a Morgan background but are interested in much of what Lawrence did (the Bad as well as the Good) and he certainly didn't stand around and let the grass grow under his feet Andy Edited October 9, 2012 by Andy Downes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solomon Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Hi How much more would you expect to pay for tr3a with a lawrence tune engine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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