simonjrwinter Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 If anyone has read my other post on gearbox "issues" they'll know I now have a noise which SOUNDS as if it's my thrust bearing. I've just checked the Penrite website and the grade of oil they recommend for a TR6 gearbox is 80W-90...now thats a hell of a difference to the 40w grade I put in there, anyone have any opinions? Thanks Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Hi Simon, you'll find more opinions re TR gearbox oil than there are oils for gearboxes . . . . . Pete Cox, who knows more than most when it comes to TR transmissions, recommends Penrite Gearbox Oil 40 - or did last time we discussed the topic. That's good enough for my purposes ! Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
simonjrwinter Posted March 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Thanks Alec, Yes I've trawled through the forum on more than one occasion looking for recommendations. I think it was Pete Cox who recommended it to me as well. It just seems to be quite a subtantial difference between 40W and 80W-90 Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elclem1 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Yes Simon, It's got to be an EP 80/90, its why they make the stuff, and never mix it up with other types. otherewise ........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm Tatton Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Is the problem related to the different sae rating systems for engine and transmission oils? I always thought that engine sae 40 was about the same as transmission sae 80. Malcolm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm Tatton Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 and here's a link, look at the table of comparisons part way down, (Table 5) http://www.kewengine...y_explained.htm Malcolm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
simonjrwinter Posted March 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Thanks Malcolm, The chart seems to suggest that 40w engine oil is the same as 80w-90 gear oil? (am I reading that right????) The Penrite oil I have is labelled 40w GEAR oil! Confusingly, Penrites website seems to no longer list a 40w gear oil! Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 The differences in viscosities are negligible - the additive packages differ. That's why engine and transmission oils use a different measurement scale, to minimise potential confusion - at least that was supposedly the original logic of the SAE. The suggestion "Yes Simon, It's got to be an EP 80/90, its why they make the stuff" is simply twaddle, opinion offered as fact. EP oils were and are primarily designed for high loading hypoid gears, as in axles/differentials for example, and older gearboxes such as ours can and do perform quite happily when lubricated by engine oil. The extreme pressure (EP) additive package is not essential. Mixing of engine and transmission oils isn't generally speaking a good idea, but it's unlikely to be disastrous assuming we are discussiing oils of similar base. Synthetic oils are another matter entirely, you don't want to be mixing synthetic PAGs with synthetic PAOs or with mineral oils - although PAOs and mineral oils are pretty much mixable. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Confusingly, Penrites website seems to no longer list a 40w gear oil! Simon Listed here on their Oz website: http://www.penriteoi...gear_box_oil_40 ...and the spec sheet says it's 25W-70. Edited March 26, 2012 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davidw Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Just to add to the controversy. The chap who rebuilt my gearbox (and two preceding ones) recommended Castrol EP90 (I think). I put this in and have done a total of 40,000 miles on all three boxes (the latest on my 5 being about 12000 with no issues at all. I also run the engine on Valvoline racing 20w50 with no problem. My 5 was previously owned by Malcolm Vaughan of the late lamented T&M Classics and he put Valvoline in it before I owned it. (And Castrol gear oil). I figured if it was good enough for him.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnny250 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Not EP anything if it has overdrive....please see page 5 here......http://www.triumphtr.com/a_type_overdrive_manual.pdf john Quote Link to post Share on other sites
simonjrwinter Posted March 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Thanks guys, thats put my mind slightly more at ease with the gearbox being filled correctly, that does mean however that it is likely to be the release bearing that has only lasted 250 miles! great! Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dobby Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) For what it's worth I use Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90 Fully Synthetic MTF (ex SMX) in my 6... Really smooth and big differance over the recommended 80/90. I've used this in my previous cars which include TVR/Lotus. Used in my 74 élan which is modified sprint/hill climb, no probs. Edited March 26, 2012 by dobby Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewP Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 From a good friend who works at BP as the lubrications manager (what a title!), you should always use gear oils with gear oils and engine oils with engines. The forces within an engine 'activate' the additives to give you different protective properties to that of differing forces (sheer etc) within a gearbox. Personally...Id always stick to what the oil manufacturer recommends and nothing else. Fair enough however if the particular application/vehicle isnt listed, then do some research, but Id still be using gear oils and engine oils for their designed application. Just my 5c +10% GST + income tax + mining tax + carbon tax + Queensland flood relief tax. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davidw Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Thanks guys, thats put my mind slightly more at ease with the gearbox being filled correctly, that does mean however that it is likely to be the release bearing that has only lasted 250 miles! great! Simon Simon, there was a seriously duff batch of release bearings in circulation in the late 1990s. I remember being stuck with one and having to swap after about 400 miles and I also remember that the late T&M Classics in Thame (who did not supply the duff one to me) were very aware of this and checked the provenance of all bearings with KGB like paranoia. How old is the release bearing you fitted? Some of these things are on the shelf for decades! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
simonjrwinter Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 David, Only bought it last year when I rebuilt the gearbox. I seem to have a thing for knackering release bearing so I guess it's possible there are further issues! Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elclem1 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Hi Simon, I am sorry if my confused things with my previous answer to your thread, which Alec so kindly suggested was 'twaddle' infact looking in the Triumph repair operation manual issue 4 page 09.1 - recommended lubricants. it states the various recommend lubricants - British isles for Gearbox AND overdrive, rear axle and lower streering swivals as... BP - BP Gear oil SAE 90 EP Castrol - HYPOY Duckhams - HYPOID 90 ESSO - ESSO Gearoil GX 90/140 Mobil - Mobilelub HD 90 PETROFINA - fina pontonic XP90-140 REGENT - Multigear Lubricant EP90 SHELL - Spriax 90 EP I am well aware that oils change over the years and manufacturers come and go and this data may have been superceded, but at some point in the life of Triumph it was what they used and recommended. It is therefore my own personal opinon having looked at the data and the fact that my cars run on EP90 without problem for me it has to be an EP90. Sorry Alec but i don't see why you suggest 'Twaddle' Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
simonjrwinter Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 The Penrite website says the oil I used meets the requirements of "API GL-1" but I've found "GL-4" is recommended Soooooooooo confused! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elclem1 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 ah as clear as mud !!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davidw Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 David, Only bought it last year when I rebuilt the gearbox. I seem to have a thing for knackering release bearing so I guess it's possible there are further issues! Simon I would strongly recommend that you ask the specific question as to the precise origin of the next bearing you buy if you want to avoid taking the box out again. Back in the late 90's when I had a gearbox fail, followed by the clutch release bearing, the fork pin and then the gearbox again over a period of months, I remember feeling that I'd been hauling gearboxes in & out of TRs since I was a small boy in a sailor suit! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JJohn Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 It seems we have all had satisfactory experiences with the oils we have used in our gearbox and overdrive units. In my case, my 'box/overdrive was built by Overdrive Repair Services. When I asked which oil to use I was asked what I was putting in the engine. Penrite 20W/60, I replied. I was told that would be fine and, for the last 28,000 miles, it has been. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rpurchon Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Thanks guys, thats put my mind slightly more at ease with the gearbox being filled correctly, that does mean however that it is likely to be the release bearing that has only lasted 250 miles! great! Simon you dont think it could be the bronze spigot bearing in the flywheel squeeking. if your stood with the clutch down the gearbox wont be turning. but the bearing in the flywheel will be spinning around the gbox input shaft. richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Many people on this forum use 'Buckeye TRiumph' as a sort of bible. They are often used as a source of proven knowledge. BT wonder why people stray from the obvious and say 'use engine oil in engines, gearbox oil in gearboxes, and diff oil in the diff is so simple'. Every time this question is asked (and it is becoming a monthly topic) there will be a recommendation for every lubricant going. What can be said is that any lubricant will work - whether it should do or not. So everybody is an expert (but remember 'ex' is the unknown quantity and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure). If you ask any of our resident experts what do the base their knowledge on it would be experience and not science because they are not experts in that field. They are only experts in using oil and if it doesn't seize up (too often) then it must be good!!! Use a gearbox oil in the gearbox Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Triumph's recommendations for gearbox lubrication varied over the years - partly as a result of evolving oil technologies. In the early TR days engine oil was probably superior to gear oils of the time, at least for overdrive boxes. Latterly gear oils improved, and multigrade engine oils became the norm - not everyone was convinced that the latter were a good idea for gearboxes. Perhaps more to the point, or so I've been told by old factory hands, the switch to recommending gear oil in preference to engine oil resulted from the realisation that it was easier to engage second gear from cold with gear oil than 20W/50 multigrade engine oil. Rather like the factory's change to recommend the use ATF rather than gear oil in the TR7 LT88 box - which was based solely on ease of gearchanging when cold, with no engineering or scientific basis for the change whatsoever. The fact that the boxes gave up prematurely was neither here nor there, as long as they survived the warranty period. My experience of older (TR2-6) Triumph boxes is that they will run on damn nearly anything, and having taken one past 250K miles on engine oil demonstrates adequately that EP gear oil is not essential. I've generally preferred to use engine oils in o/d boxes of whatever marque, and not yet had a failure. Nothing against EP80, 90, 75/90 or whatever, but it is NOT mandatory, which is why I took objection to the statement implying that it was . . . . Needs must when the devil drives, and never more so than in racing - back in the relay race days we once had to refill a leaking TR box with a mix of 5W/30 engine oil and straight SAE 10 hydraulic oil, it was all we had left. Another time with ATF, Dexron II, for the same reason. On both occasions the o/d boxes carried on regardless. Let alone the first 3A I had, which ran on cheap recycled engine oil as it burnt a lot and required regular changing owing to dilution from fuel getting past the knackered rings. The 'box leaked like the proverbial, and was topped up weekly (at least) on the used sieved engine oil . . . . still went like a train. You can get too hung up on lubrication, any 21st Century lubricant is light years ahead of 50s and 60s oils. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elclem1 Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Not wishing to hijack the thread but I now understand your comment Alec, harsh perhaps but fair, I agree that gearboxes will run on almost anything for a limited period of time depends what oil/liquid you use, I seem to remember people putting sawdust in a noisy diff in order to sell it on to an unsuspecting buyer. Over the years oils have changed and now simon has to answer the million dollar question - What oil ????? Good luck Simon the choice is yours....... I sit on my side of the fence . Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.