4A fuel pipeGoing to

[GPICK]

Hi folks,

Going to have to replace fuel pipe before MOT as it's got too many joints in it and its route takes it too close to the exhaust to be safe. Thought I would buy a roll of copper tube and make one up myself rather than pay a fortune for a ready made one. Does anyone know the correct route for the pipe, especiallly around the T shirt area as mine runs through it right next to the exhaust- is this correct? Also what diameter is the pipe, and are olives/compresson fittings or flared fittings used?

 

Regards, Geoff.

[RAHTR4]

Hi folks,

Going to have to replace fuel pipe before MOT as it's got too many joints in it and its route takes it too close to the exhaust to be safe. Thought I would buy a roll of copper tube and make one up myself rather than pay a fortune for a ready made one. Does anyone know the correct route for the pipe, especiallly around the T shirt area as mine runs through it right next to the exhaust- is this correct? Also what diameter is the pipe, and are olives/compresson fittings or flared fittings used?

 

Regards, Geoff.

 

 

Hi Geoff,

 

That pipe run is definitely wrong it should run on the nearside outer face of the T shirt area.

 

Have a look at the Moss Catalogue (printed hard copy) it has a very good diagram on page 37 which shows how the pipe runs from front to back and the locations where it goes through the chassis as you will need rubber grommets at these locations.

 

Not sure exactly what diameter the pipe is - 1/4" or 5/16" I would guess.

 

All the ends are flared.

 

Regards, Richard

[GPICK]

Hi Richard,

thanks for that. Thought mine was wrong.I've got a Moss cat. somewhere,will have to look it out.

Thanks again, regards Geoff.

[Ian Vincent]

Hi Geoff,

 

I have just finished doing the fuel pipe runs on my TR3a. I bought the pipe and fittings from Stevson Motors (they have a web page - just google it). Cost from them was significantly less than the cost of a kit from Moss. They will sell you a kit or you can pick and choose for a bespoke set up.

 

Rgds Ian

[randall977]

I've done quite a few new fuel lines including my Turbo Audi (which is high pressure) and my current TR4. I used 10mm copper heating pipe with appropriate olives - it's perfect (it can withstand up to 300psi..ish). Buy it off eBay cheap - you only need 5 meters + a flaring kit. The problem you may have is with the unions - these need to be bought from a specialist such as Moss etc. I also use a fuel line jointing compound (available from Frosts - PTFE) to be sure it's sealed. The route is fairly obvious, I had to put mine in from scratch. From the fuel tank it goes over the rear axle (under the rear seat deck) to the end of the passenger floor pan (there is a rubber joint at this point). Then through the large hold in the chassis under the passenger side floor pan across the outrigger (clips should be evident) and then head to the fuel pump (look at photos and the Workshop Manual). Overall the line should be made out of three pieces, the front piece is about 30cm long...

[GPICK]

Hi folks, thanks for the info. Looks like another busy weekend.

regards, Geoff.

[Ian Vincent]

I've done quite a few new fuel lines including my Turbo Audi (which is high pressure) and my current TR4. I used 10mm copper heating pipe with appropriate olives - it's perfect (it can withstand up to 300psi..ish). Buy it off eBay cheap - you only need 5 meters + a flaring kit. The problem you may have is with the unions - these need to be bought from a specialist such as Moss etc. I also use a fuel line jointing compound (available from Frosts - PTFE) to be sure it's sealed. The route is fairly obvious, I had to put mine in from scratch. From the fuel tank it goes over the rear axle (under the rear seat deck) to the end of the passenger floor pan (there is a rubber joint at this point). Then through the large hold in the chassis under the passenger side floor pan across the outrigger (clips should be evident) and then head to the fuel pump (look at photos and the Workshop Manual). Overall the line should be made out of three pieces, the front piece is about 30cm long...

 

 

This reference to CH pipe reminds me that the tr3 tubing is 5/16 in dia which happens to be the same as 8mm dia heating pipe. Connectors and oives are available from Plumb centre - (because I lost an olive). It bends pretty easily although if you want to get intricate, Machine Mart do a bender for about £12.00.

 

I have heard conflicting comments about whether or not petrol and PTFE react together - I avoided using it because there didn't seem to be a definitive answer.

 

Rgds Ian

[stuart]

 

 

I have heard conflicting comments about whether or not petrol and PTFE react together - I avoided using it because there didn't seem to be a definitive answer.

 

Rgds Ian

 

I havent had a problem with it so far but you are only going to use it on the thread as a belt and braces. The olives should do the actual sealing.

Stuart.

[randall977]

...actually I think it is 8mm copper pipe - please check before purchase!

[Ian Vincent]

...actually I think it is 8mm copper pipe - please check before purchase!

 

 

If a TR4 uses the same size as a TR3a then it is definitely 5/16" from the tank to the fuel pump and 5/16" is 7.9375mm.

 

Rgds Ian

[GPICK]

Many thanks again for the info

regards, Geoff.

[Alec Pringle]

It's 8mm . . . . . of all our TRs, the only one which needs 10mm is the TR8 Drag Car. Offhand, I can't think of any wetliner 4s which can consume fuel at that sort of rate !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[GPICK]

Thanks Alec, I've got a 4A here that's useing fuel at an alarming rate, problem is it's not going through the engine, it's leaking all over mi boots !! A new length of 8mm pipe will help matters no end.

regards, Geoff.

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Geoff,

 

don't smoke with your boots on then . . . . That could add a whole new dimension to dying with your boots on, you'd qualify for the Darwin Awards Once in a Lifetime John Wayne Special Award !!!

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[BrianC]

As one who has suffered more than my fair share of fuel leaks in the last few years with new pipes and hoses on both TRs, I'd advise you to replace any unknown rubber/flexible fuel line with new hose marked 'for use with unleaded fuel' (unless, like Ian Cornish, you are still using 4-star).

 

Also, use proper fuel clips rather than 'Jubilee' type which will leak no matter how often you re-tighten them and avoid the crimped on clips as they will leak within a few hundred miles and you cannot even tighten them.

 

[All learned the hard and scary way!!]

Edited November 26, 2010 by BrianC

[randall977]

I've used specific flexible hose which has 'for unleaded' written on it - I got it from the business unit right next to the TR Register in Didcot for just a few pounds. It is a very tight fit and requires no clips...honest!

[GPICK]

Hi Alec, with regard to the boots, I've been looking for alternative heating for the garage, do you think it might catch on !!

regards, Geoff.

[88V8]

...actually I think it is 8mm copper pipe - please check before purchase!

 

Copper.... from 2013 we shall be stuck with fuel containing 10% or more ethanol. Leaving aside the question of whether it's actually 'green', have you read this?

http://www.tr-regist...vice%202010.pdf

 

Go to the end, recommended materials for petrol, it says Copper Bad, Stainless Good.

 

Aso says Viton bad, rather hard on those who have viton seals in their fuel system, including most PI cars I would guess.

 

Ivor

[randall977]

Not recommended - copper... I wonder what the actual reaction is? It's not that easy to get stainless steel fuel lines - I suppose braided flexi hoses are the way forword - nice classic look!

[Robin Powell]

I find it rather strange that the scottish distilling industry have used copper stills since the year dot without the alcohol melting them!

[Ian Vincent]

I find it rather strange that the scottish distilling industry have used copper stills since the year dot without the alcohol melting them!

 

 

I wondered the same thing but I guess it must be true because when I googled ethanol / copper reactivity I came up with a number of sites that stated that copper would be corroded by ethanol. I suspect that it will be a long term thing and not an instant disintegration of all copper pipework. At least I hope so, having just replaced the fuel pipe system on my TR3a with copper pipe.

 

And incidentally, I wouldn't fancy trying to weave a stainless steel pipe through the chassis knowing the propensity for SS to work harden very quickly.

 

Rgds Ian

[peejay4A]

Arise dear thread! I would like to re-pose the question.

 

The original question was how does the fuel line run on a 4A around (or not) the T shirt area? There were some very clear indications from contributors that the fuel pipe should not run adjacent to the exhaust on the inner part of the T-shirt area and that sounds eminently sensible. But this is the way it is shown, although not very clearly, in the Roger Williams book on page 75, right along with the brake pipe. I didn't find the Moss diagram particularly enlightening for the 4A because it's an inset although it's much better for the 2,3 and 4. I can't see how one would run the line outside the T-shirt on a 4A, there are no through holes in the trailing arm chassis members on my chassis, and I'm not about to go drilling through holes in that area.

 

Here is a poor picture showing a clip in the upper tunnel of the T-shirt area which seems to be for the fuel pipe. You can also see how I have run the brake pipe as per Roger Williams.

 

Sorry if I'm labouring this but I've none of the original plumbing to go from. So what's the verdict?

Edited March 27, 2011 by peejay4A

[stuart]

That is pretty much how I have the fuel pipe running through on my 4a. Your brake pipe needs to run a little further away from the spring along the inner edge of the T/A and it has a clip 615836 holding it to the edge.

Stuart.

[peejay4A]

Thanks for the quick response Stuart. The T/A routing is still WIP, I have the clips at the ready.

 

So it's correct that the fuel pipe runs inside the T-shirt section (as it does from memory on the TR6) and it needs to sweep up through the clip on the tunnel (I'll be rubber bushing it in the clip). Unfortunately, then I'm clueless as to how it runs when it exits the rear of the tunnel.

[stuart]

Thanks for the quick response Stuart. The T/A routing is still WIP, I have the clips at the ready.

 

So it's correct that the fuel pipe runs inside the T-shirt section (as it does from memory on the TR6) and it needs to sweep up through the clip on the tunnel (I'll be rubber bushing it in the clip). Unfortunately, then I'm clueless as to how it runs when it exits the rear of the tunnel.

 

I will have the a@se end of mine up in the air later so I will see if I can get a pic for you. Bear in mind mine is solid axle.

Stuart.