TR2 Suspension Improvements

[BillS]

Next year I hope to have more time available to drive my old TR2, and up to now I have put up with the rather odd handling characteristics, particularly at any sort of speed, ie 60+ when the car gives one a feeling of lack of control, and it wallows a bit.

 

So I was thinking of improving the handling (but retaining the steering box). The car is totally standard at present.

 

Does anyone have any experience of handling mods available, particularly sorting both front and back end to work in unison. Thanks in anticipation, Bill

[TR 2100]

Next year I hope to have more time available to drive my old TR2, and

up to now I have put up with the rather odd handling characteristics,

particularly at any sort of speed, ie 60+ when the car gives one a

feeling of lack of control, and it wallows a bit.

 

So I was thinking of improving the handling (but retaining the steering box).

The car is totally standard at present.

 

Does anyone have any experience of handling mods available, particularly

sorting both front and back end to work in unison. Thanks in anticipation, Bill

 

 

There are quite a few mods you can do, but how far do you want to go?

As in how much do you want to spend?

 

You would probably get a huge improvement simply by fitting new poly

bushes (far superior to the original rubber ones and they last longer),

new springs and shockers and made sure the tracking was spot on.

 

Best/relatively cheapest mods would be shortening the top wishbones a

little and fitting an anti roll bar. The rear shouldn't need any mods for normal

or fast road use.

 

AlanR

Edited October 28, 2009 by TR 2100

[BillS]

There are quite a few mods you can do, but how far do you want to go?

As in how much do you want to spend?

 

You would probably get a huge improvement simply by fitting new poly

bushes (far superior to the original rubber ones and they last longer),

new springs and shockers and made sure the tracking was spot on.

 

Best/relatively cheapest mods would be shortening the top wishbones a

little and fitting an anti roll bar. The rear shouldn't need any mods for

normal or fast road use.

 

AlanR

 

Thanks Alan, I would be prepared to spend a reasonable amount to get the car to handle well enough to really enjoy it as a road car, but I do not want to spoil it. I have seen kits at around £2k which I could convince myself would be ok if the improvement is worth it. I do want to end up with a good road/touring/everyday car, not too hard suspension wise, that my wife would also enjoy driving. Rgds Bill

[vivdownunder]

Hi Bill,

 

To get the TR2 handling well again all you need do is rebuild the suspension and steering to the original specs, but with a couple of upgrades.

 

If it still has rubber lower inner bushes, the newer nylon replacements are very good. And as Alan says, aftermarket inner (upper) bushes in poly are a big improvement over rubber, but still give a compliant ride.

 

Providing the front and rear springs haven't sagged, they are probably OK. Just check that the centre bolt isn't broken in the rear leaf springs when they are re-bushed.

 

A full rebuild of the steering box and linkage will give good steering once again, and you can lighten it be replacing the two rubber silentbloc bushes with delrin aftermarket items.

 

Any of the established TR repairers dotted around, such as those advertising in TrAction, should be able to do this work competently.

 

Or if you want to a quantum leap in handling, talk to Neil Revington who has some superbly engineered suspension items available.

 

Regards,

 

Viv.

[BillS]

Hi Bill,

 

To get the TR2 handling well again all you need do is rebuild the suspension and steering to the original specs, but with a couple of upgrades.

 

If it still has rubber lower inner bushes, the newer nylon replacements are very good. And as Alan says, aftermarket inner (upper) bushes in poly are a big improvement over rubber, but still give a compliant ride.

 

Providing the front and rear springs haven't sagged, they are probably OK. Just check that the centre bolt isn't broken in the rear leaf springs when they are re-bushed.

 

A full rebuild of the steering box and linkage will give good steering once again, and you can lighten it be replacing the two rubber silentbloc bushes with delrin aftermarket items.

 

Any of the established TR repairers dotted around, such as those advertising in TrAction, should be able to do this work competently.

 

Or if you want to a quantum leap in handling, talk to Neil Revington who has some superbly engineered suspension items available.

 

Regards,

 

Viv.

 

Thanks Viv, do you have any experience of the Revington upgrades?

[Andrew Smith]

Thanks Viv, do you have any experience of the Revington upgrades?

Bill

 

It might be worth PM'ing Brian Chidwick about the Rev's full kit - he had his removed as it was too firm for him.

 

I've recently changed the rubber Silentbloc bushes with Delrins (available from MOSS) and all the tie rod ends. Suspension wise, I've fitted MOSS rally springs, Koni adjustables, Superpro bushes (front and rear), Rev's upgraded rear springs and std lever arms - all these are relatively cheap mods but they have improved the handling no-end.

 

I'm also considering fitting one of Rev's spring loaded top plates for the steering box over the winter months, before I go down the route of asking Stuart to rebuild the box of tricks if need be.

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Don Elliott]

I changed the silent-bloc bushes, put in poly bushes (no more rubber ones for me) and I rebuilt the steering box. See the photos which originated from Menno.

 

My tapered peg was worn on two flanks and this was causing my 1958 TR3A to wander (steer) towards the verge, then I would have to make a huge correction to get it straight on the road again, but it would want to wander towards the centerline. Then I'd have to steer the other way again.

 

I took out the steering box, took it apart on my workbench and my neighbout used his press to press out the tapered pi. We turned (rotated) the same pin 90 degrees and pressed it back into the drop-arm. Now the tapered pin is no longer sloppy where it engages the tapered groove in the worm.

 

Since then, the TR tracks straight as it did when it was new. It is straight with no sloppy stering even at 80 MPH. As Viv says above, all you need to do is gat it back to where it should be and it will be fine.

[ianc]

In addition to the use of nylon or poly bushes, fit an anti-roll bar at the front.

 

Please don't shorten the top wishbone arms, that was a bodge used back in the 1960s/70s, and it upsets the geometry. If you want negative camber, buy a kit which will do the job properly (Revington).

 

What rim width have you got? If it's 4" or 4.5", it's worth considering 5.5", as it gives greater stability to the tyre and will improve cornering. Wheels seem to appear on the Forum and in TRAction's "For Sale" column quite often.

 

Many TR2/4/4s will have rear dampers which are well worn - having them re-furbished can make an enormous difference. However, the mounting brackets for the rear dampers are rather weak on early TR2s (on my first TR2, back in 1963, one bracket had broken in half!), so it is worth checking and, if necessary reinforcing - see Williams' book "How to improve your TR2/3/4" - obtainable from the Register's shop.

 

You don't have to spend a fortune to improve handling quite considerably.

 

Ian Cornish

[BrianC]

It might be worth PM'ing Brian Chidwick about the Rev's full kit - he had his removed as it was too firm for him.

 

Not me - mine was done by TRGB and works extremely well for the sort of driving we do - mainly A and B country roads and a few mountain tracks on SBMC tours (but I don't drive it as hard as some!).

 

Basically: rebuilt with a mixture of polybushes and rubber, uprated springs and dampers, original steering box.

I do have an unused genuine SAH anti-roll bar kit but haven't felt the need to fit it yet, although I am contemplating doing some track days and maybe a few hillclimbs or sprints, so I will probably need it then.

[Andrew Smith]

Not me - mine was done by TRGB......

Sorry Brian, ................who the hell am I thinking of then?

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Andrew,

 

perhaps you're thinking of Pete Fenlon ?

 

Hi Bill,

 

The Revington conversions are excellent, but fast road isn't to everyone's taste - designed for speed as the priority over touring comfort, something like that. Question of deciding personal priorities. Definitely worth sampling a car that has already been done.

 

Personally I'd renew the bushes and shocks all round, and sort the steering, before looking to do anything more drastic . . . .

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Andrew Smith]

Sorry Brian, ................who the hell am I thinking of then? Cheers Andrew

Hi Andrew, perhaps you're thinking of Pete Fenlon ? Cheers, Alec

Oh 'by eck lad', yes I am! Shyte!

 

Pete will not let me live this one down - but maybe he won't notice?!

 

Cheers

Andrew

[pfenlon]

Dont kid yourself. (you know who you are)

 

And yes I bought the integrated kit for my TR3A front and rear roll bars uprated springs, Rack and pinion shockers that cost oodles.

 

And for me may I stress it drove like a dogs dinner, with a V8 in it perhaphs a third place at Le Mans would have been possible.

 

I kept the rack and polybushes and sold all the other stuff and put back what Mr Triumph designed for it and it was then really nice.

 

But on the road in the rain, these cars were not easy to control, and quite unforgiving, in the dry OK, also I noted that because the steering

 

is much better with R @ P you tend to drive just that bit quicker, and the tendency to meet your maker all the sooner is a definate.

[BrianC]

...on the road in the rain, these cars were not easy to control, and quite unforgiving, in the dry OK, also I noted that because the steering is much better with R @ P you tend to drive just that bit quicker, and the tendency to meet your maker all the sooner is a definate.

 

For me, the challenge of driving the cars as they were designed, with basic improvements such as may have been available in their day, is the great joy of owning them. It really does take a lot of getting used to if switching from a modern car, or in my case, having not driven my TR for 19 years and is akin to learning to drive all over again. However, the satisfaction of gradually mastering the handling foibles is well worth the effort and one can have a lot of fun driving at slightly slower speeds than in a modern car but feeling a lot more part of the machine - more like riding a motor-cycle than merely conducting a homogenised eurobox.

 

Realistically, any TR, even a sidescreen car in standard spec (but good condition) is perfectly safe and more than capable of keeping up with traffic on any roads at legal (or a bit over) speeds. The keys are condition (the before-and-after rebuild differences in handling were a revelation), and learning to drive the car appropriately.

Edited October 28, 2009 by BrianC

[vivdownunder]

Hi Bill,

 

Regarding Neil Revington's products, I've only seen them on the "Yellow Peril" ex Revington associated Italia that now lives happily nearby.

 

Everything is beautifully made, but essentially it's a race car, and as such the suspension cost many thousands of pounds.

 

The idea was that if you feel some aspect of your original TR2 suspension was lacking, then Neil probably has a component upgrade, such as his rear leaf springs.

 

Regards,

 

Viv.

[BillS]

Thanks for your thoughts, I have found that one of the rear shock absorbers has become loose, and elongated the securing bolt holes, also there is sign of leakage.

 

I have already replaced the front rubber bushes with poly ones, and replaced the front shocks with Moss inexpensive ones.

 

Probably the next course of action will be to replace rear shocks with original type, look to strengthen their mountings (early TR2 - TS 362), and fit anti roll bar on front suspension.

 

Thanks to all, Bill

[ianc]

One thing I forgot to mention earlier: new shockers can transform a car's handling - performance deteriorates gradually over the years and we don't realise it unless we have the chance to drive someone else's well-fettled car. Koni or Spax at the front (both are adjustable) and refurbished or new lever arm at the rear. See also my note on another thread under TR2/3 (to do with bare chassis) concerning the use of larger rear lever arm shockers.

Ian Cornish

[pfenlon]

For me, the challenge of driving the cars as they were designed, with basic improvements such as may have been available in their day, is the great joy of owning them. It really does take a lot of getting used to if switching from a modern car, or in my case, having not driven my TR for 19 years and is akin to learning to drive all over again. However, the satisfaction of gradually mastering the handling foibles is well worth the effort and one can have a lot of fun driving at slightly slower speeds than in a modern car but feeling a lot more part of the machine - more like riding a motor-cycle than merely conducting a homogenised eurobox.

 

Realistically, any TR, even a sidescreen car in standard spec (but good condition) is perfectly safe and more than capable of keeping up with traffic on any roads at legal (or a bit over) speeds. The keys are condition (the before-and-after rebuild differences in handling were a revelation), and learning to drive the car appropriately.

 

 

I agree with all your comments Ian, but quite untrue when its raining, to keep up with modern traffic in wet conditions would qualify for a place on strictly come dancing, in the waltz section. Rose coloured glasses spring to mind.

[alanh]

i know you've covered this already, but i found that just rebushing the front suspension with nylon made a huge difference. (the original rubber bushes had collapsed and the lower inner wishbone mounting holes had elongated such that the nylon bushes just fell through the holes!)

 

just curious, but what wheels and tyres are you on?

 

alan

[BillS]

i know you've covered this already, but i found that just rebushing the front suspension with nylon made a huge difference. (the original rubber bushes had collapsed and the lower inner wishbone mounting holes had elongated such that the nylon bushes just fell through the holes!)

 

just curious, but what wheels and tyres are you on?

 

alan

 

Alan, I agree regarding the bushes, the only ones I did not change at the front were the silent block bushes in the steering, I will probably replace these during the winter. Wheels are probably 41/2 solid (not wires) I say probably as originally these would have been 4inch I believe. Tyres are Firestone F560 165 15 radials.

 

rgds, Bill