TR Man Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Dear All, We have fitted an RHD rack and pinion steering conversion to an 1959 TR3A which we are currently renovating, (originally LHD, California). The R & P was supplied in the early 90s by TRBitz but we have no upper steering column. On searching MOSS and other websites we have been unable to find a good description or photo of the upper steering arrangement. I wonder what bracket is used at the bulkhead and also what are the arrangements under the dashboard. Any advice and particularly images would be very welcome. Regards, Martin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Dear All, We have fitted an RHD rack and pinion steering conversion to an 1959 TR3A which we are currently renovating, (originally LHD, California). The R & P was supplied in the early 90s by TRBitz but we have no upper steering column. On searching MOSS and other websites we have been unable to find a good description or photo of the upper steering arrangement. I wonder what bracket is used at the bulkhead and also what are the arrangements under the dashboard. Any advice and particularly images would be very welcome. Regards, Martin If you have the bracketry from the original column then this is all reused with the upper column. TR Bitz can supply a top column section but you will need to make different arrangements for indicators and horn. I am away from my work computer at the moment so no images available. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Hi Martin, With an upper steering column from a 3A, the original control head won't operate with a R & P conversion, as you can't fit an inner stator tube to carry the indicator and horn wires. The upper column and switch gear from a TR4 is a good option. That's subject to checking with TR Bitz if it's compatible with their kit at the midway flexible coupling. You'll need a bracket from a RHD car to support the upper column on the bulkhead inside the engine bay. These are generally only available from wrecked RHD cars, or make something up as a mirror image of the same bracket from your LHD car. Swapping to a TR4 upper column keeps the car close to period, and allows a TR badged horn button. Regards, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Man Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Thank you Viv and Stuart for the excellent advice. Another member has contacted me privately and is offering me a spare TR4 set up for a very reasonable price. I am taking this based on your advice. Thank you both once again. This Forum is a great resource. Regards, Martin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RAHTR4 Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Martin, If you check back on this Forum section - extend the period to 90 days - then look for a two postings by Boggie on the subject of R & P for a TR3A. From the responses I do not think that parts from a TR4 column will work. I would contact Boggie and get the full story as I am sure he will have got his car sorted by now. Regards, Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Here's the last TR4 upper column I installed on a R & P conversion. http://www.tr-register.com.au/pics/2006/co.../copelandk2.jpg Regards, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
angelfj Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Here's the last TR4 upper column I installed on a R & P conversion. http://www.tr-register.com.au/pics/2006/co.../copelandk2.jpg Regards, Viv. mmmmmmmmmm!!! I'd love to know what goodies are in the picnic basket. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Man Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Here's the last TR4 upper column I installed on a R & P conversion. http://www.tr-register.com.au/pics/2006/co.../copelandk2.jpg Regards, Viv. Nice picture, Viv. Really like the wheel! Regards, Martin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hi Frank, If you kept the pix of the fitted suitcase, I think I sent the picnic basket as well. It has coffee cups with a TR2 apron badge screenprinted on. The one piece polished River Redgum dashboard machined from a single piece of timber was a challenge for the cabinet maker. Then we had to make a profiled metal backing to support it at the weak area around the guage panel. You'll notice a cutaway section below the O/D switch to allow extra clearance for the disabled owner's false leg. And thanks Martin. The first attempt at a small diameter steering wheel, which works well with the lighter R & P steering, had the original wheel bakelite removed, and the spokes cut down, Then a rolled alloy tubular ring was made, and the spokes let in and welded up. Unfortunately it was slightly too large in diameter for the disabled driver to get into the car, so the smaller aftermaket wheel was then fitted. Regards, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
angelfj Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hi Frank, If you kept the pix of the fitted suitcase, I think I sent the picnic basket as well. It has coffee cups with a TR2 apron badge screenprinted on. The one piece polished River Redgum dashboard machined from a single piece of timber was a challenge for the cabinet maker. Then we had to make a profiled metal backing to support it at the weak area around the guage panel. You'll notice a cutaway section below the O/D switch to allow extra clearance for the disabled owner's false leg. And thanks Martin. The first attempt at a small diameter steering wheel, which works well with the lighter R & P steering, had the original wheel bakelite removed, and the spokes cut down, Then a rolled alloy tubular ring was made, and the spokes let in and welded up. Unfortunately it was slightly too large in diameter for the disabled driver to get into the car, so the smaller aftermaket wheel was then fitted. Regards, Viv. Viv: Please send a G'day to your friend and tell him I love his car. He is to be admired for not allowing his disability to dampen his enjoyment of this beautiful motorcar! All the best Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boggie Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Hi Viv, I am puzzled and VERY interested as to how the fitting of a TR4 upper column shroud works in a TR3a. The escutcheon and stalk are clearly TR4 but from my initial investigations it seems that the TR4 shroud will not suit (or indeed fit) a TR3a upper column: The distance between the dashboard and bulkhead / upper UJ are quite different between the cars (the TR4 being substantially shorter than the TR3a). This means the upper column shroud of the TR4 will not be long enough to reach the TR3a bulkhead and be clamped just after it passes through it where the upper UJ of the R&P conversion is. Do I assume that the original TR3a shroud has had a length matching the TR4 shroud cut off and then the two are welded together, retaining the TR3a column inside? I would be VERY interested in finding how it has been done as I am still trying to find a solution for our car and the TR4 shroud / escutcheon / indicator stalk makes perfect sense. Are the TR3a and TR4 columns the same diameter and run within the same top nylon bush? Many thanks, Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RAHTR4 Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Ian, Some further dimensions : The outside diameter of the inner steering column shaft on the TR4 is 19mm. The outside diameter of the parallel section of the shroud which goes through the dash and bulkhead is 32mm in diameter. Hope this helps. Regards, Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'm also intrigued as to how Viv's very neat solution has been executed, although my interest is purely academic (at least for the foreseeable future) as I've no intention of fitting R&P or giving up the 'big wheel'. Is it possible to achieve self-cancelling of the inbdicators using this setup? The horn button is another problem, and I'm not sure whether Viv's solution addresses this. However, if I were to fit an after-market (Moto-Lita, etc) wheel, I would settle for stalk switches on the dash, within easy fingertip reach, just like the overdrive switch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 The whole upper column, inner and outer is TR4, so it all works together including the indicator self cancelling. It is married to the 88 Escort rack via a lower shaft we had fabricated to suit, that incorporated the spline from a TR4 lower inner column. Thus for simplicity the TR4 flexible coupling was used to connect the upper and lower inner shafts. This allowed a TR4 horn button to be used, which is earthed down the inner column, via a jump wire over the flexible coupling. The TR4 switch/wiring set up for the indicators, and the horn positive feed is then grafted into the 3A loom. The O/D can be operated either via the extra lever on the TR4 switch, or as we preferred, using the toggle switch. You can use a either a standard TR4 steering wheel, or a woodrim wheel on a TR4 splined boss, and get the original look of the TR badged horn button. The steering wheel does end up a bit closer to the driver, but I've driven this car over long distances, and you don't really notice it. Regards, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Seems like the perfect solution Viv. I'm sure if you marketed it as a kit there would be quite a few takers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RAHTR4 Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Viv, As the distanced from the dash to the bulkhead on a Tr3A is greater that on a TR4, I presume that you had to increase the length of the TR4 inner top shaft and the outer aluminium shroud. I was wondering how did you do it as the joints would be hidden for view between the dash and the bulkhead? Regards, Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Richard, regarding your query, I have now had a chance to catch up with the owner's engineer who made up the R & P kit including the Escort rack brackets and marrying up the inner columns, to ask if he extended the TR4 upper column. The owner dealt with the engineer while I was away for a month, and all the R & P steering components were painted up when I returned. I made the metal backing for the timber dash, then installed the dash and the steering, and it all went together perfectly. I then sorted the wiring and got the indicators and horn working. So it didn't occur to ask if the TR4 column had been changed. Turns out the engineer had decided to replace the TR4 aluminium column with steel tube, just in case it compressed if the clamps were overtightened, but after 7 years, he can't recall if the steel tube was longer. I suspect you are correct and the TR4 column was extended. Regards, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Larnder Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hi Martin Don't know if it's any good to you but I have an inner top column for a TR3A suitable for the telescopic steering arrangement. The column is hollow and the top spline length is 4.75" long or 12cms if you prefer the metric. It has been cut at some stage but welded together with a sleeve and the whole lot is concentric. Overall length is 36.75" or 93.5cms I have R&P with a Moto Lita wheel with the horn in the middle and the turning signal operated from a single stalk off the column. It is not self canceling so I fitted a buzzer from Maplin across the indicator warning light to remind me to cancel afterwards. Pictures of my set up are on a previous thread. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Man Posted March 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hi Martin Don't know if it's any good to you but I have an inner top column for a TR3A suitable for the telescopic steering arrangement. The column is hollow and the top spline length is 4.75" long or 12cms if you prefer the metric. It has been cut at some stage but welded together with a sleeve and the whole lot is concentric. Overall length is 36.75" or 93.5cms I have R&P with a Moto Lita wheel with the horn in the middle and the turning signal operated from a single stalk off the column. It is not self canceling so I fitted a buzzer from Maplin across the indicator warning light to remind me to cancel afterwards. Pictures of my set up are on a previous thread. Dave Thank you for your kind offer, Dave. Another member has sent me a inner column from a TR3a that we think we can shorten by about 2-3 inches without losing too much of the splines at the steering wheel end. We decided not to cut and re-weld an inner column for safety reasons. I am glad you told me about your Moto Lita wheel with the central button for the horn. I hope we will be able to do the same. I also would be quite happy to have a nearby stalk switch on the dashboard for the indicators. Kind regrads, Martin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Larnder Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Thank you for your kind offer, Dave. Another member has sent me a inner column from a TR3a that we think we can shorten by about 2-3 inches without losing too much of the splines at the steering wheel end. We decided not to cut and re-weld an inner column for safety reasons. I am glad you told me about your Moto Lita wheel with the central button for the horn. I hope we will be able to do the same. I also would be quite happy to have a nearby stalk switch on the dashboard for the indicators. Kind regrads, Martin Hi Martin If the weld is done PROPERLY it is stronger than the parent metal. My one on the car was shortened by the same amount as you anticipate. Although you put a stalk onto the dash, it still wont self cancel. Try the buzzer like I did - it helps Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Man Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Hi Martin If the weld is done PROPERLY it is stronger than the parent metal. My one on the car was shortened by the same amount as you anticipate. Although you put a stalk onto the dash, it still wont self cancel. Try the buzzer like I did - it helps Dave Hi Dave, Sorry about the delay in replying. I have not visited the Forum for the past week. I note what you say about the welding and will keep that in mind if shortening the upper end is not going to work out. I am sure if I make enquiries I will be able to source some one who would be qualified to do it properly. The buzzer is a good idea and perhaps a little flashing light. I will report back to the Forum when we have successfully finished the steering. Could be awhile away yet! Regards, Martin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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