TR6 Brakes

[johnnyhulme]

How can I get decent brakes? mine are all standard exept for power stop green pads, which have made little or no difference,

what I want to know is, will slotted & drilled disks make a significant difference? if so whose

will finned [i assume circular not radial ] drums make a significant difference ? if so whose

I would apreciate any thoughts

[davehop]

Hi jonny

 

Here's a link to an article on the RevingtonTR site which pretty nuch sums it up - as far as I can tell

 

 

http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/downloads/IS0023.pdf

 

Cheers

 

 

Dave

[CONCRETE24]

Hi johnny,

I overhauled my brakes a couple of years ago and fitted EBC cross drilled and slottes discs, green stuff pads and new standard calipers. The braking on my 6 is now pretty much comparable with a modern car- probably more to do with nice new calipers and fluid! I think that where the cross drilled and grooved disks have really helped is with brake fade (I don't suffer from this any more - where as I used to all the time on fast country lanes)! I don't think the brakes need to be any stronger for road or occasional track use. The cross drilling does makes the brakes noiser under braking, (which some people don't like, but doesn't bother me). There was quite a long thread on the TSSC board recently, against the use of these discs (as pointless), but from my experience i'm happy with them and the cost was not prohibitive by any means. I don't think the finned drums are worth the expense, (if setup properly the drums should be more than adequate as they are). As I said above, the single biggest improvement was probably the new calipers!

Regards,

Michael.

[Guest ron]

Johnny

There is nothing wrong with the standard brakes in a standard car if they are in good condition and properly set up, they need a bigger heave than most modern cars but you should still be able to easily lock the wheels.

Ron

[Richard Crawley]

Welcome to the forum Johnny.

Unless you’re going racing, I totally agree with Ron. Up rating the discs & pads will cure your problem but at much higher cost. The original brakes are actually very good but they must be must be in good condition & properly set up. I also think a lot of complaints of poor braking efficiency stem from the use of modern asbestos free pads which require much higher pedal force than the originals; this is one of the reasons modern cars need new brake discs every couple of years or so, unheard of in the days of asbestos pads. I still use original Ferodo pads which are freely available from most auto jumbles, just take sensible precautions when servicing.

 

This topic has been discussed several times on this forum, it may pay you to have a read through the archive before you finally decide what to do.

[vanflyer]

I installed new brembo discs non grooved, new brakes seal kits on the calipers and braided steel hoses, (more for longevity than anything else) there is a slight improvement in the pedal with the hoses but the standard set up is more than adequate to stop the car. Compared to my wifes new Mini the brakes require a good prod, but then her car is way more brake than it needs and they comes across as fierce.

[RobinTR6]

Fopr a small investment you can swap the rear wheel cylinders for bigger ones which apparently increases pressure by 30% at back end for £20. I ve done this before driving my car so not sure how it was before but its cheap and recommended by 'experts'.

[Red 6]

This afternoon i finished rebuilding the front suspension of a full race TR6 which has standard discs and calipers but with uprated pads which work from cold but can sustain higher working temperatures and goodridge hoses.

 

Yesterday i fitted a new servo and vaccum pipe to my tr250 which has wilwood calipers, cross drilled and ventilated discs goodridge hoses, uprated pads, rear alloy finned drums etc.

 

On a "back to back" test i can confirm there is no difference at normal road speed and driving conditions, but then both systems are in good condition

 

I can also confirm that in the race car braking from say 130mph with std discs and calipers is uneventful, ie they work perfectly.

 

On braking from 80 in the 250 the same uneventful, just like a modern car.

 

I hope to thrash the 250 to within an inch of its life on a trackday (to give my elise a rest) so at some time i will be able to compare my elise (v good at braking) with uprated braking on the 250.

 

In the meantime my 250 with its posh braking system looks er "Cool"

[Richard Crawley]

This afternoon i finished rebuilding the front suspension of a full race TR6 which has standard discs and calipers but with uprated pads which work from cold but can sustain higher working temperatures and goodridge hoses.

 

Yesterday i fitted a new servo and vaccum pipe to my tr250 which has wilwood calipers, cross drilled and ventilated discs goodridge hoses, uprated pads, rear alloy finned drums etc.

 

On a "back to back" test i can confirm there is no difference at normal road speed and driving conditions, but then both systems are in good condition

 

I can also confirm that in the race car braking from say 130mph with std discs and calipers is uneventful, ie they work perfectly.

 

On braking from 80 in the 250 the same uneventful, just like a modern car.

 

I hope to thrash the 250 to within an inch of its life on a trackday (to give my elise a rest) so at some time i will be able to compare my elise (v good at braking) with uprated braking on the 250.

 

In the meantime my 250 with its posh braking system looks er "Cool"

I think that says it all; on a road car, the gloosy uprated stuff will do nothing more than a good standard system except inflate your pride & empty your wallet!

Edited April 18, 2007 by Richard Crawley

[Tom Fremont]

Once ( ~1972 ) in the 1st TR of my acquaintance, a '67 TR4A with live axle, my buddy Mike ( owner of same ) and I were riding around irritating whoever we encountered with teenage antics when suddenly one offended driver ahead of us slammed on his brakes, intending to cause panic if not a collision - Mike easily stopped the TR ( bias ply tyres and all ) and remarked with a snide grin "... and he thought he could out-brake a TR!"

 

When in production I think TRs were considered to be well endowed in the brakes dept.

 

On a related note, because they weren't pretty anymore I replaced the discs on my 200,000 mile TR250. Never resurfaced in their lives, they exhibited only a slight unevenness ( mild scoring ) with thickness virtually as new. Who knows when they would have actually worn out...for that matter, ditto the calipers which only got a seal kit once ( precautionary - they weren't leaking ).

Edited April 18, 2007 by Tom Fremont

[Red 6]

Spot on Richard, mind you i did a good deal with rally design

[shuey]

just to put two penny worth in I`ve just resealed calipers renewed fluid and invested in true cross drilled and slotted discs apart from an irritating noise that gets a lot louder under brakeing I can`t see any improvement so I think Richard Crawleys got it about right;" on a road car, the gloosy uprated stuff will do nothing more than a good standard system except inflate your pride & empty your wallet!"

[jellison]

Hawk Blues

[jonlar]

Hawk Blues

 

Hi Jon, pads, I assume - for road use or track use?

[RogerH]

Hi Jon,

saw them in the 60's got their CD's but didn't like what they were smoking!!!!

 

 

Roger

[jellison]

 

Hi Jon, pads, I assume - for road use or track use?

Fast road - they are quite abrasive as sintered metalic - but good for fast road and moderate (not too modded) racing.

[John L]

I fitted Mintex 1144's to my 5, and I find this really accepatable to what it was before, plenty of bite, for what its worth. Also have them on my Westfield V8.

John

[Roger H]

I think the design of the undersized booster unit is the root cause of many poor braking complaints. Admittedly, we are used to boosters are often "over-servo'd" on cars these days, and when you jump in the ol' TR....Whoa..!!!!!! back to the good ol days

 

The low vacuum at idle also means that generally the booster is only bought up to (close to?) optimum operating pressure when the engine is on overun. If you start the car, and keeping the revs low, coast down the hill to the bottom of the street you might feel a tad vulnerable.

 

Apart from the size of the unit, the seal between the front of the booster and the m/cyl is cause for concern. The condition of this seal determines the effective vacuum in the unit, yet it has the steel rod (which pushes the m/cyl piston) passing through it.

 

Every time the brakes are applied and released, the rod moves back and forth against the rubber lip of the seal. Any wear or tear in the seal and the vacuum reduces.

 

Many modern boosters have a twin seal setup where the master cylinder is also sealed to the booster body which prevents vacuum leaks occurring. This is easy to achieve on the TR by putting a bead of sealant around the perimeter of the m/cyl where it fits into the booster body. I used a non-hardening windscreen sealer for ease of removal of the m/cyl.

 

If one has concerns about a car’s braking, I would start with a visit to a competent brake shop where they can check the boosted pressure at the front callipers. There should be around 1000 psi for them to be most effective.

 

As the rear brake shoes are not self adjusting they also need to be adjusted as they wear.

 

I suggest that the booster and pad pressure is checked and the rear shoes adjusted before contemplating changes to the front end.

 

What I did find noticeable was a change to slotted (not cross-drilled) discs. Removal of glaze/dust from the pads (and adding new greenstuff ones!) seemed to work for me.

[jellison]

You should see the way a std weight TR6 brakes go off even with Hawk blues in and a puny 170+bhp - great at the start of a racer, not much at the end - but on the road they are great.

[marvmul]

You should see the way a std weight TR6 brakes go off even with Hawk blues in and a puny 170+bhp - great at the start of a racer, not much at the end - but on the road they are great.

Hawk Blue brake pads on a road car? Don't try this at home. Jon, These pads don't work from cold, (maybe about 10% of their maximum brake performance) : I know it, I use these pads since 3 year on my TR3 race car: in an emergency brake situation on the road , these pads have no stopping power (unless you apply the brakes every half a mile to keep them hot).

I suppose Hawk has only one kind of Blue pads, 9012.

[jerrytr5]

Just to add to this exciting topic, I've tried the following on my 5:

Standard everything - terminal brake fade with any sort of spirited driving.

Mintex (fast road - can't remember the number) pads with standard discs/calipers - Won't work from cold, and then they grab.

Standard pads with drilled discs/std calipers - reduces brake fade a tad.

EBC greenstuff with drilled discs/std calipers - brake fade reduced significantly but had a 'wooden' feel.

Hawk HPS pads with drilled discs/std calipers - nice feel, much reduced fade, work from cold, very little dust.

Hawk HPS with drilled and slotted discs/std calipers - nice feel, almost no fade (within reason), a pretty good compromise for fast road & occasional track day. The slots make a significant difference but are also noisier.

Never bothered with finned rear drums or changing rear cylinder size - have used rear shoes with VG95 linings and never had any problems.

Jerry