Rear Wings (non) Alignment

[adriantr4]

Hello

I am progressing with the on-chassis rebuild with my '4, but I need some hints and suggestions on getting the rear wings to align. 

Here is the story so far: Had the car for 30 years, ex-California, converted to RHD long ago. The chassis is straight, no rust, and I think the tub never removed. The tub is is also straight, essentially sound. Boot, floors, engine area, scuttle all ok. No issues. Recently I have had an excellent mobile welder (Rob, robsmobileweldingservices@gmail.com, Bournemouth area) fix up/replace the sills, part of the deck edge where it joins the rear wings, and a few other odds and ends. He did a great job, including replacing the bottom of the front wings. The major body issue was that the top of the rear wings had rotted away.

I bought two used Stanpart rear wings, one a bit so-so (nearside) and a much better offside from our very own Stewart. I had an excellent local body guy (Shaun, enquiries@historicmetalworks.com, Lymington) fix up these wings. On viewing them he pronounced both to be fine, and has since repaired them, eg: knocked out the dents, straightened a  little.

My plan then, was to put the wings on, and all would fit. But ....

The good news is that the original front wings fit perfectly, the bottom of doors gap is good. The photo shows how things currently stand at a trial first fit, nearside only. The offside has the same issues, the rear light binnacle is perfect, but there is a big step up the in swage line from door to wing.

I can juggle the both wings a bit, but the wing flanges are hard up against the B post. The B post fixing holes line up pretty much ok. I can bend things too, so the B post gap area can be improved. What basically needs to happen is the rear wings lower edges to shrink back away from the door/B post, and the upper edge move forwards! The front wings can moved down the car a shade, both rear wings can be moved up or down, and I suppose (reluctantly) I can move the door. Can I move the doors around much?

I think my strategy is to align from the front wings & work backwards. I'm happy to cut a gap into the wing B-post flange(s) if I need to, to allow further bending?

All comments welcome.

Thanks, Adrian

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Put a jack under the rear corner of the chassis and lift.   Does it close the gap?   Add shims under the B post to chassis mount.  
 

Do same at front.   

Edited June 11 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[Malbaby]

Firstly, start from the back not the front as the the rear wing position is fixed via the tail light binnacle fitment, the doors and front wings are moveable to some extent.

Have you moved the doors from their original position?

Looking at the B post from inside the rear wing, does the current wing fitment to the post look correct or askew?...With the top of the rear wing fixed, the bottom of the rear wing can be pulled back away from the sill to create a gap, but it looks like the wing has already been pulled back.

Do you have pics of the drivers side panel fitment for comparison.

Are the current body to chassis shims of equal thickness at the main body mounts?

You could try very carefully lifting the back end of the body slightly away from the chassis after loosening the rear body/chassis mounts to see how much the top door/wing gap closes.

Although the swage line is good between the door and the front wing, the top of the door is lower than the top of the wing.

The vertical contour of the front wing to door does not match.

Post your progress to the questions and comments, and we can advise further.

I think that you may have to add/subtract metal to the edges of door/wings to achieve nice panel gaps.

 

Bottom line......this is not an easy fix and you have work to do.

 

Edited June 11 by Malbaby

[adriantr4]

Thanks for the info.

I have put the original rear wing back on to check, and also adjusted the front wing by moving it back.

The front wing to door gap is improved and just about acceptable, the rear wing to door gap also better, more linear, but still wide. I should also admit that the original gaps when I was running the car were wide. 

I also lifted the end of the rear wing up to see what raising the rear of the tub might do. It might be worth a try, but it has to come up and inch or more to make a noticeable difference.

Photo shows original wing roughly fixed on.

Thanks, Adrian 

 

Edited June 12 by adriantr4

[Rob Salisbury]

At the same time you also want to get the bonnet back on so you can get the front curvature of the wings and bonnet to match up as you move the wings back and forward, also a very important gap is the one between the trailing edge of the bonnet and the scuttle, ie highly visible from just about any angle, to my way of thinking this is the one you need to set first, and then gradually position all the other panels   ... the whole thing is like a giant Rubix Cube  .. move one bit and three others fall out of line!!                            Cheers rob

[Malbaby]

5 hours ago, adriantr4 said:

Thanks for the info.

I have put the original rear wing back on to check, and also adjusted the front wing by moving it back.

The front wing to door gap is improved and just about acceptable, the rear wing to door gap also better, more linear, but still wide. I should also admit that the original gaps when I was running the car were wide. 

I also lifted the end of the rear wing up to see what raising the rear of the tub might do. It might be worth a try, but it has to come up and inch or more to make a noticeable difference.

Photo shows original wing roughly fixed on.

Thanks, Adrian 

 

Interesting that the old rear wing fits a lot better than the replacement. Therefore the replacement wing is a problem.

I would now look at the dimensions of the replacement wing, especially at the bottom to determine where they differ...eg..distance from the front edge to the vertical mounting plate.

Is the old wing slightly longer at the top where it meets the door.

 

Edited June 12 by Malbaby

[harrytr5]

Replacement looks like a pattern one which were not the best at all.

Regards Harry

[adriantr4]

Hi

Did some measuring, and my old wing is about 3mm longer than the "new" rear wing at the very top by the door. Not much, but the photo shows the issue when the old is placed directly above the new. All other edges are correct. I still believe it's a Stanpart, but surprised both my repaired wings are offset like this. I"ll think on, thanks to all posters, particularly Malbaby. You were right.

Adrian 

[Malbaby]

2 hours ago, adriantr4 said:

Hi

Did some measuring, and my old wing is about 3mm longer than the "new" rear wing at the very top by the door. Not much, but the photo shows the issue when the old is placed directly above the new. All other edges are correct. I still believe it's a Stanpart, but surprised both my repaired wings are offset like this. I"ll think on, thanks to all posters, particularly Malbaby. You were right.

Adrian 

Quite a difference

Next...Is the vertical mount section of the replacement wing the same distance from the bottom front edge as the old?

How do the wheel arch contours compare, as we cannot see the replacement?

The top length of the replacement wing is fixable, the lower front will be a little more difficult....We can guide you through the process.

Edited June 15 by Malbaby

[stuart]

Nothing that a bit of lead wont fix

Stuart.

 

[adriantr4]

Hi

Thanks for the responses

The vertical section and contours, shape all good. The offside wing (courtesy Stewart - pm sent btw) is an excellent fit with binnacle 100%, but same issue with that lower edge being too far forward. 

So: how do I pull those edges back?

Thanks, Adrian 

[Ian Vincent]

If it’s just a case of sorting out the door gap, wouldn’t it be easier to weld a bit of welding rod along the edge of the door and leading it in?

Rgds Ian

[Malbaby]

42 minutes ago, adriantr4 said:

Hi

Thanks for the responses

The vertical section and contours, shape all good. The offside wing (courtesy Stewart - pm sent btw) is an excellent fit with binnacle 100%, but same issue with that lower edge being too far forward. 

So: how do I pull those edges back?

Thanks, Adrian 

You can pull the lower section backwards and try and hold it there via the small bolt/screw underneath, but not recommended as the lower/sill section will be stressed and deformed.

Need to fix this problem correctly by modifying the front edge of the replacement wing.

[stuart]

15 hours ago, Malbaby said:

You can pull the lower section backwards and try and hold it there via the small bolt/screw underneath, but not recommended as the lower/sill section will be stressed and deformed.

 

The holes on original wings were slotted to allow for this. The return bolted to the rear of the "B" post is more of a governing factor but its easy enough to separate that and refit where required.

Adrian you have PM back.

Stuart.

[adriantr4]

Many thanks to all for their input, thanks Stewart I have replied. All the info is immensely useful and I appreciate everyone's time

I'm going to consider my options.

Regards Adrian 

[fabrice5925]

Hi Adrian

i have the same problem but at the right

i change my rear wing by an original old stock

have you the modify with sucess ?

how you have do ?

have you a picture ?

regards

fabrice

[adriantr4]

Hello Fabrice

Thanks to Neil, Wessex TR Register GL, we tried his TR5 wings. A perfect fit .... Tried my original wings that came off the car - a good fit.

My solution: I'm going to get my original rear wings repaired by my bodywork guy. The top flange area on both wings has rotted away but the remainder is ok.

I could get the ones discussed in the thread fixed up, but it's all a bit of a compromise with cutting and welding - and the lights area, swage line aren't quite correct.

I'll post pictures once the work is completed. It isn't the route I wanted, but it further proves that old restoration rule of never throwing things away.

Regards, Adrian