Graham Baggaley Posted January 20 Author Report Share Posted January 20 (edited) O Edited January 20 by Graham Baggaley Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Baggaley Posted January 20 Author Report Share Posted January 20 55 minutes ago, roy53 said: What are all those bits in the sump picture ? Bearing shell Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Baggaley Posted January 20 Author Report Share Posted January 20 55 minutes ago, Hamish said: That’s a proper skinny lightweight flywheel. is it a high performance engine ? No. It was just a good offer from the TR shop for new old stock. Thought I may as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Baggaley Posted January 20 Author Report Share Posted January 20 8 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: What oil was this engine running with? 20/50 classic oil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 That ruled out one area of possible cause. You were not running thin an’pissy lager type racing oil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 (edited) Well Graham, that’s certainly a sad state and you need answers. Typically such failure is a lack of oil or too tight a tolerance on a new build. what is clear is that you will certainly need to trip everything and a thorough clean as any of that swarf debris needs to be removed or you will be back in the same boat on any part rebuild. wouldn't wish this catastrophe on anyone. Good luck with the new build. Edited January 21 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 (edited) 8 hours ago, Graham Baggaley said: 20/50 classic oil How long between changes of oil and filter?…..that’s some serious quantity of sludge in the sump. Unfortunately with that level of debris, it’s a complete strip and meticulous clean to quantify what has gone wrong. We can only see the big lumps, heaven knows where the small stuff has managed to get to. Edited January 20 by iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 3 hours ago, iain said: How long between changes of oil and filter?…..that’s some serious quantity of sludge in the sump. Unfortunately with that level of debris, it’s a complete strip and meticulous clean to quantify what has gone wrong. We can only see the big lumps, heaven knows where the small stuff has managed to get to. Jammed in the oil pump? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 I see there is a spin on oil filter conversion. Wasn`t there something on here a while ago about some of them not sealing correctly internally ? Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trumpy3 Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 Graham That is a lot of rubbish for one failed big end. Interesting that the rod with the broken lock tab is the rod that failed? Was one caused by the other or one collateral damage or coincidence. I'm not a great believer in coincidences. I assume the tab was OK when you changed the oil pump. What are the other bearing like, main and rod. I see you have a spin on filter conversion. I think they are great but how long has it been on? Is there any correlation between fitment and oil pressure issues? Brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trumpy3 Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 Oh, Just a thought. Looking at that flywheel, has the oil galleries from the main oil gallery to the main bearings been enlarged as is done by some when doing race preparation? Brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 16 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said: I see there is a spin on oil filter conversion. Wasn`t there something on here a while ago about some of them not sealing correctly internally ? Ralph 3 hours ago, Trumpy3 said: Graham I see you have a spin on filter conversion. I think they are great but how long has it been on? Is there any correlation between fitment and oil pressure issues? Brian Both thinking the same. I think it was something to do with the internal seal not sealing, although I don`t think it would affect the pressure but would allow dirty oil to by pass the filter. I have one of those spin on conversions on my car and no pressure problems. Could it have been the pressure relief valve stuck open causing the low pressure? Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Baggaley Posted January 23 Author Report Share Posted January 23 On 1/22/2024 at 3:09 AM, Trumpy3 said: Graham That is a lot of rubbish for one failed big end. Interesting that the rod with the broken lock tab is the rod that failed? Was one caused by the other or one collateral damage or coincidence. I'm not a great believer in coincidences. I assume the tab was OK when you changed the oil pump. What are the other bearing like, main and rod. I see you have a spin on filter conversion. I think they are great but how long has it been on? Is there any correlation between fitment and oil pressure issues? Brian The broken tab washer end cap was not the one that had the failed bearing. All the other bearings were in very good order. The spin on has been on there from the rebuild. This engine only had 1500 miles on it. Three oil changes and filters at the same time. I’m stripping everything off the block then wending it for cleaning. The crank and rods are off to get checked as well for ovality. At least it’s winter! the only thing keeping me out the garage is my 5 & 7 year old boys. Not enough time in the day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Baggaley Posted January 23 Author Report Share Posted January 23 On 1/22/2024 at 3:14 AM, Trumpy3 said: Oh, Just a thought. Looking at that flywheel, has the oil galleries from the main oil gallery to the main bearings been enlarged as is done by some when doing race preparation? Brian I will check that. Thanks. The car was extensively rallied. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trumpy3 Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 If all the other bearings were good then my first concern would be the failed one. Lack of oil would affect all bearings. I would be looking for something that only related to the actual failure, not something that would affect all other oil fed items. Eg. bearing shell fitment, conrod, crank pin, oil feed to the failed part, etc. That's not to say the cause is not related to low oil pressure but my first bet would be a local one. Regarding the broken lock tab, sorry I thought it was on the failed bearing, my misread, question still remains, was it OK when you fitted the oil pump? Brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Baggaley Posted January 24 Author Report Share Posted January 24 I was just reading the workshop manual regards crankcase ventilation and I note that the 3a should have a vented oil filler cap. Mine definitely does not. This could explain the oil loss if I am getting pressure in the crankcase as a result of no airflow and oil being expelled (with pressure) through the crankcase vent pipe. Thoughts on that? if doesn’t explain the drop in oil pressure when the engine was warm though. now to look for a vented oil filler cap! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 2 hours ago, Graham Baggaley said: I was just reading the workshop manual regards crankcase ventilation and I note that the 3a should have a vented oil filler cap. Mine definitely does not. This could explain the oil loss if I am getting pressure in the crankcase as a result of no airflow and oil being expelled (with pressure) through the crankcase vent pipe. Thoughts on that? if doesn’t explain the drop in oil pressure when the engine was warm though. now to look for a vented oil filler cap! Provided the block has its original vent pipe in the side of the block the lack of a vented cap wont affect oil pressure, We had a car come in a while ago with oil leaks everywhere and it turned out to have no block vent and a sealed filler cap, once fitted with those there was no more leaks. Oil pressure was not affected. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 Whilst the engine is stripped, I would check the state of the cam bearings in the block, they can easily have been damaged by circulating crud. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trumpy3 Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 Non vented cap??? When I fitted a new alloy cover, I used a non vented TR4 cover and cap. My crank case vent was, and still is, directed to a catch tank beside the battery. The catch tank vented to the rear air cleaner. Next time on the track and after about 2 laps (short 2K circuit ) I became a smoke screen. Back in the pits I found the oil level down about 2 litrs and the catch tank full. Removed the rocker cover cap, and fixed with a zip tie, I fitted a Chux,wipe. Finished the remainder of the meet without issues. Back home I fitted a separate rocker cover breather fed to the catch tank. That was about 10 - 12 years ago and have never needed to drain the catch tank since. So does the engine need a rocker breather???? Mine did. At leased when driven hard. I always drove to the track and I had no troubles on the way down, about 150mls. Brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 8 hours ago, Trumpy3 said: Non vented cap??? When I fitted a new alloy cover, I used a non vented TR4 cover and cap. My crank case vent was, and still is, directed to a catch tank beside the battery. The catch tank vented to the rear air cleaner. Next time on the track and after about 2 laps (short 2K circuit ) I became a smoke screen. Back in the pits I found the oil level down about 2 litrs and the catch tank full. Removed the rocker cover cap, and fixed with a zip tie, I fitted a Chux,wipe. Finished the remainder of the meet without issues. Back home I fitted a separate rocker cover breather fed to the catch tank. That was about 10 - 12 years ago and have never needed to drain the catch tank since. So does the engine need a rocker breather???? Mine did. At leased when driven hard. I always drove to the track and I had no troubles on the way down, about 150mls. Brian Jenvey throttle bodies Brian ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trumpy3 Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 Yes. started with Megasquirt MS2 and single throttle body some 13 years ago. Now run 40mm Jenvey (just come down from 45mm) Sequential injection, wasted spark and MS3X. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 12 hours ago, Trumpy3 said: Non vented cap??? When I fitted a new alloy cover, I used a non vented TR4 cover and cap. My crank case vent was, and still is, directed to a catch tank beside the battery. The catch tank vented to the rear air cleaner. Next time on the track and after about 2 laps (short 2K circuit ) I became a smoke screen. Back in the pits I found the oil level down about 2 litrs and the catch tank full. Removed the rocker cover cap, and fixed with a zip tie, I fitted a Chux,wipe. Finished the remainder of the meet without issues. Back home I fitted a separate rocker cover breather fed to the catch tank. That was about 10 - 12 years ago and have never needed to drain the catch tank since. So does the engine need a rocker breather???? Mine did. At leased when driven hard. I always drove to the track and I had no troubles on the way down, about 150mls. Brian But do you have a block breather pipe? item 39 here https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/engine/engines-components/external-engine-tr2-4a-1953-67.html That should vent the engine sufficiently though if you have an external oil feed up to the rockers then you may have too much oil getting up round the top of the engine anyway. Stuart. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trumpy3 Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 My block vent is open and runs up to the catch tank without any constriction. Yes I have the external oil feed to the rockers as I run roller rockers. This setup was never an issue with the standard rocker cover and cap but it may have contributed to the problem. The problem never showed on the trip down but it may have passed some oil to the catch can but not enough to show and a couple of hard laps was the straw. Am interested with what Graham has found to date. Brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Baggaley Posted January 28 Author Report Share Posted January 28 On 1/24/2024 at 11:48 PM, Trumpy3 said: Non vented cap??? When I fitted a new alloy cover, I used a non vented TR4 cover and cap. My crank case vent was, and still is, directed to a catch tank beside the battery. The catch tank vented to the rear air cleaner. Next time on the track and after about 2 laps (short 2K circuit ) I became a smoke screen. Back in the pits I found the oil level down about 2 litrs and the catch tank full. Removed the rocker cover cap, and fixed with a zip tie, I fitted a Chux,wipe. Finished the remainder of the meet without issues. Back home I fitted a separate rocker cover breather fed to the catch tank. That was about 10 - 12 years ago and have never needed to drain the catch tank since. So does the engine need a rocker breather???? Mine did. At leased when driven hard. I always drove to the track and I had no troubles on the way down, about 150mls. Brian Very interesting. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Baggaley Posted January 28 Author Report Share Posted January 28 On 1/25/2024 at 12:26 PM, stuart said: But do you have a block breather pipe? item 39 here https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/engine/engines-components/external-engine-tr2-4a-1953-67.html That should vent the engine sufficiently though if you have an external oil feed up to the rockers then you may have too much oil getting up round the top of the engine anyway. Stuart. Stuart. I don’t have an external oil feed. But do have the original vent pipe in the block. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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