Hardware finishes for restoration

[BaulyCars]

Hi everyone, 

I wanted to ask for views on preferred process for cleaning up nuts/bolts/washers (specifically) during restoration or maintenance, and what (if any) re-finishing/re-coating people are doing.

I've been using evaporust and/or vinegar for rusted parts and throwing the hardware in too - they come up great, but finding it a bit annoying how the hardware in particular tends to go black and whilst the black residue will easily scrub off it doesn't quite look the same as originally.

I also notice that if I now let the hardware dry it will happily flash-rust, so not quite sure whether the original hardware coating has now gone (phosphate coating?), and whether I should just 'season' the hardware well (oil/grease) and re-use, or whether the effort of re-plating/re-coating is needed.

I have visions of all the hardware instantaneously rusting after the first run through a puddle...

Any thoughts/experience welcome. 

 

Kind Regards

Toby   

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by BaulyCars

[ed_h]

Hi, Toby.

Most factory hardware was cadmium or zinc plated to protect it from rusting.  So if you see rust on a fastener,  it means the protective plating has been breeched.  Cleaning in just about any acid (including vinegar) will also remove the plating.  Evaporust works by a different chemistry, and does not bother the plating.  Any areas where the plating is gone will be more subject to rusting than the original part was.

New hardware is a good option, but that's sometimes not possible.  Alternatively, some sort of new protective coating can be applied. Black oxide is one possibility,  but an actual re-plate is way more protective.  Lots of outfits will do zinc (or other metal) plating of small parts for reasonable cost.  Home replating is also within reach of many hobbyists who want to try it.

Ed

[stuart]

I use new fasteners where possible (obviously of correct strength) or Nickel plate originals as Ive got a small plating tank. Clean first with Jenolite or equivalent. I also have a blast cabinet for smaller parts then refinish from bare with Bondarust to protect and then whatever finish is required i.e. black or body colour.

Stuart.

[BaulyCars]

35 minutes ago, ed_h said:

Hi, Toby.

Most factory hardware was cadmium or zinc plated to protect it from rusting.  So if you see rust on a fastener,  it means the protective plating has been breeched.  Cleaning in just about any acid (including vinegar) will also remove the plating.  Evaporust works by a different chemistry, and does not bother the plating.  Any areas where the plating is gone will be more subject to rusting than the original part was.

New hardware is a good option, but that's sometimes not possible.  Alternatively, some sort of new protective coating can be applied. Black oxide is one possibility,  but an actual re-plate is way more protective.  Lots of outfits will do zinc (or other metal) plating of small parts for reasonable cost.  Home replating is also within reach of many hobbyists who want to try it.

Ed

Thanks, Ed,

So sounds like stick to Evaporust for the fasteners and plating if I'm not replacing.

I did actually quite like the black look of the bolts after the vinegar (shame its little more than temporary) - I haven't tried black oxide (or equally black zinc or black xylan maybe, which seems to be popular).      

Thanks, Toby

[BaulyCars]

36 minutes ago, stuart said:

I use new fasteners where possible (obviously of correct strength) or Nickel plate originals as Ive got a small plating tank. Clean first with Jenolite or equivalent. I also have a blast cabinet for smaller parts then refinish from bare with Bondarust to protect and then whatever finish is required i.e. black or body colour.

Stuart.

Thanks, Stuart,

Another vote for new fasteners - who is good for bolt supply in the UK these days (I struggle to find a reliable supplier where I am for imperial)   

I'd very much like a blast cabinet, the various tubs of vinegar/evaporust does get a bit tedious (and Evaporust in particular is surprisingly expensive).  

I haven't tried Bondarust before, is that a single stage as I'd prefer that.

I otherwise may try one of the Jotun epoxy's which seems a popular choice. 

 

Cheers,

Toby 

[RogerH]

Hi Toby,

these folk offer a good service  https://www.namrick.co.uk/

 

Roger

[BaulyCars]

56 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Toby,

these folk offer a good service  https://www.namrick.co.uk/

 

Roger

Thanks, Roger, much appreciated that looks ideal. 

 

Cheers

Toby    

[PodOne]

Hi Toby

All of the above.

You will find setting up your own plating and passivate tank(s) a useful thing to do not just for nuts/bolts unavailable but for original brackets and components eg door mechanicals. Repro items are usually inferior being there. It saved me a lot of money re-plating items.

You can also find stainless kits for the doors on e bay from time to time.

Andy

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

How durable is Jax Black gun bluing liquid?    It is frequently mentioned and used in the model engineering and making world.

Edited July 6, 2023 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[Mike C]

Whenever I'm purchasing fasteners  I replace  them  with SS , if possible. Cheap these days and last forever.

[ed_h]

1 hour ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

How durable is Jax Black gun bluing liquid?    It is frequently mentioned and used in the model engineering and making world.

The bluing or blacking solutions do offer some protection against corrosion, but won't stand up to outdoor conditions for long.

Ed

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

6 hours ago, ed_h said:

The bluing or blacking solutions do offer some protection against corrosion, but won't stand up to outdoor conditions for long.

Ed

Thank you. That was my suspicion 

[Macleesh]

10 hours ago, Mike C said:

Whenever I'm purchasing fasteners  I replace  them  with SS , if possible. Cheap these days and last forever.

Great idea, just be careful SS has a lower tensile strength than standard steel ones. SS may not be suitable for critical areas.

[Mike C]

14 minutes ago, Macleesh said:

Great idea, just be careful SS has a lower tensile strength than standard steel ones. SS may not be suitable for critical areas.

Most decorative/trim components are pretty lightly loaded. Corrosion of chrome plated components has been my big problem and things like SS fasteners these days are virtually  the same price as quality MS ones.

[RogerH]

Hi Mike,

you need to keep any/all Chromed components well waxed. The Chrome plating is not a 100% surface covering.  It is made up of little islands.

Moisture gets through the gaps and causes the steel below to rust.  So you  fill the gaps with wax (polish) continuously.

Usually quality items are copper and nickle plated before any Chrome goes down.  This helps to make the chrome last a long time but is still not 100% perfect.

Roger

[RobH]

5 minutes ago, Mike C said:

things like SS fasteners these days are virtually  the same price as quality MS ones.

Just beware of using SS for both the bolts and nuts.  Stainless-on-stainless is notorious for 'galling'  where they fuse together immovably. 

[stuart]

17 hours ago, BaulyCars said:

Thanks, Stuart,

Another vote for new fasteners - who is good for bolt supply in the UK these days (I struggle to find a reliable supplier where I am for imperial)   

I'd very much like a blast cabinet, the various tubs of vinegar/evaporust does get a bit tedious (and Evaporust in particular is surprisingly expensive).  

I haven't tried Bondarust before, is that a single stage as I'd prefer that.

I otherwise may try one of the Jotun epoxy's which seems a popular choice. 

 

Cheers,

Toby 

Bondarust is a single stage red primer thin with cellulose thinners if required. I use it for all blasted brackets etc before paint also for all panel work too as a first stage https://www.rustins.ltd/bonda/our-products/anti-rust-and-corrosion/bonda-rust-primer- The advantage of that stuff is it will accept all types of primer and paint over it unlike a lot of others.

Another good fastener company is this lot https://www.spaldingfasteners.co.uk/

Stuart.

[BaulyCars]

15 hours ago, PodOne said:

Hi Toby

All of the above.

You will find setting up your own plating and passivate tank(s) a useful thing to do not just for nuts/bolts unavailable but for original brackets and components eg door mechanicals. Repro items are usually inferior being there. It saved me a lot of money re-plating items.

You can also find stainless kits for the doors on e bay from time to time.

Andy

Thanks, Andy, ok this sounds like a must do, but haven't done so before - any good refs for learning and setting this up? (there's probably some YouTube videos no doubt).  

[BaulyCars]

45 minutes ago, stuart said:

Bondarust is a single stage red primer thin with cellulose thinners if required. I use it for all blasted brackets etc before paint also for all panel work too as a first stage https://www.rustins.ltd/bonda/our-products/anti-rust-and-corrosion/bonda-rust-primer- The advantage of that stuff is it will accept all types of primer and paint over it unlike a lot of others.

Another good fastener company is this lot https://www.spaldingfasteners.co.uk/

Stuart.

Thanks, Stuart,

Single stage sounds ideal (easier to do parts bit by bit), and also on bare panels, great. Will it brush/roller ok for smaller parts or you're always spraying it? 

Spalding looks great, thanks. 

[BaulyCars]

1 hour ago, Macleesh said:

Great idea, just be careful SS has a lower tensile strength than standard steel ones. SS may not be suitable for critical areas.

I'd always hope that no bolts on the car would be near enough to their failure limit that a move to stainless would cause an issue - but I'm also never sure enough about ss bolts to use them (whether that's in cars or buildings etc).  

[Mike C]

2 hours ago, RobH said:

Just beware of using SS for both the bolts and nuts.  Stainless-on-stainless is notorious for 'galling'  where they fuse together immovably. 

Absolutely true once high torques are applied to SS/SS threads - and once SS nuts/bolts start to gall turning only locks then up harder. Moly or graphite  grease on the threads will prevent  the galling starting.

It's not a problem, of course, with SS fasteners into MS threads or MS bodywork.

[ed_h]

1 hour ago, BaulyCars said:

Thanks, Andy, ok this sounds like a must do, but haven't done so before - any good refs for learning and setting this up? (there's probably some YouTube videos no doubt).  

Just like many other topics, YouTube can be a good source of information, but unfortunately, for home plating at least, the good ones are vastly outnumbered by ones that offer misguided or even outright bogus information.  By far, most of the plating processes found on YouTube will yield inferior or inconsistent results.  Cars are essentially an outdoor application, and plating needs to be more than just cosmetic, which is what you'll get by following most YT processes.

Unless you have a background in chemistry, the best way to get into hobby plating is through an outfit like Caswell.  They supply kits that will yield good quality plating.

[stuart]

2 hours ago, BaulyCars said:

Thanks, Stuart,

Single stage sounds ideal (easier to do parts bit by bit), and also on bare panels, great. Will it brush/roller ok for smaller parts or you're always spraying it? 

Spalding looks great, thanks. 

I spray but thats just me as I go for the best look possible. I just keep one small gun like this for it http://.https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/tg2-professional-touch-up-gun/

You can buy Bondarust in aerosols too if thats a help.

Stuart.

 

[BaulyCars]

Great to see, thanks.

Yeah aerosols could be useful for the small stuff.   

[stuart]

5 minutes ago, BaulyCars said:

Great to see, thanks.

Yeah aerosols could be useful for the small stuff.   

There you go https://www.rustins.ltd/bonda/our-products/anti-rust-and-corrosion/bonda-rust-primer---aerosol-170gm

Stuart.