Wire Wheels - Worn splines.

[JohnTB]

Is there any way to address worn wire wheel splines (the female on the wheel itself) I have a small amount of play which causes a clunk. I've replaced the carriers and tried rotating the wheel through various positions on the carrier. Is there anything  I can do to cure the problem short  of buying a new wire wheel ?

[Z320]

Hi John,

there is always more or less play.

Could you make a close up photo of the splines to show us?

In my opinion mostly the center nuts are only not tight enough (300 Nm).

Ciao, Marco 

 

[rcreweread]

John(?)

Many people don't realise that the spinners themselves can wear - what happens is that the threaded part spreads out and this in turns means that the spinner has to tighten further down inside it's threaded bit to become tight - it can eventually get to the point where it bottoms out inside the threaded bit and then it doesn't matter how much you torque it up, it's not going to tighten onto the wheel.

If you are anywhere near the New Forest ( it always helps if you state where you are in the UK ), take your wheels/splnners and splined hubs to Tudor Wheels and they will check them out for you. I think one of the best value sets of spinners, splined hubs and nuts is available from TR Shop in Chiswick but it sounds like you don't need a full kit so maybe source some new/good used spinners and see if it makes a difference .

Cheers Rich

[JohnTB]

Thanks Folks. I'm in Haywards Heath, West Sussex so New Forest a bit far. I did try 'photo's but you can't really get much idea from them. Carriers are fairly recent so no wear at all and you can't really see anything on the wheels. New spinners might be worth a try, they're currently the octagonal type which requires the large spanner. - 300Nm ! that's around 220 ft/ibs for us old folks,  my Torque wrench only goes 150 ft/ibs. The Workshop manual show 80 ft/ibs. (you chaps in Germany must be a lot stronger!)

I've started to toy with the idea of replacing with bolt on Minilite look-a-likes.

[RogerH]

Hi John,

usually the rear wheels wear quicker than the front due to the power going through there.

Have you considered changing over  the rear to the front  and front to rear.

 

Roger

 

 

[Schnippel]

Hello ,
Unfortunately, the adapters wear out more at the front.
And then it can be really funny when you brake hard.
The spoked wheels should be regularly checked against twisting without grease with a firm brake.
Life is too short !

Best regards
Ralf

[Z320]

Hi John,

80 ft x lbs (108 Nm) may be good for each of the 4 nuts of steel rims, I use 120 - 170 Nm for this on my familys modern cars.

This is a photo of a used but good adapter

And next one of a worn adapter

 

Ciao, Marco

 

 

[harlequin]

Hi Marco

I don't know if it's the same with modern (I assume alloy) wheels but over tightening steel wheels can result in cracks in the wheel between the bolt holes

George 

[Z320]

Hi George,

thank you, you are right, the torque 120 - 170 Nm is for M12-M14 for aluminum wheel rims (with steel inserts).

Best is to torque them according to the producers manual, at my German TR4 manual for the 7/16 UNF (about „M11“) wheel nuts only 62-76 Nm is listed.

For my dads 2016 Ford Focus the manual tells „all models of wheels: 135 Nm“ (!?!) and steel rims are illustrated.

The TR manual sadly tells nothing for wire wheel nuts by I did a self test years ago.

200 Nm and 250 Nm is a endless and annoying „clonk-clonk“, 300 Nm is needed and tight for our low powered ( up to 200 hp) cars.

We discussed that at another thread.

Ciao, Marco 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Z320

[harlequin]

I must say Marco that after the previous thread on wire wheel tightening, I thoroughly cleaned the adaptors, wheel centers and knock on spinners with brake cleaner, then with just a light smear of copperslip on the threads reassembled and all the clonking is a 5hing of the past

George 

Edited May 19, 2023 by harlequin

[Z320]

Yes,

simple rule: what should slide and move easily on each other - grease / oil it.

All other not.

[JohnTB]

Thanks for all of the advice chaps. The carriers (adapters) are fairly recent as that was my first approach. I would guess they've only done some 3k miles. I'm going to clean up the wheels and the carriers, with brake cleaner and get new spinners and fit with copperease. I'll try to torque to the 200Nm value ! (I'll have three Shredded Wheat that morning!)

[Drewmotty]

49 minutes ago, JohnTB said:

I'll try to torque to the 200Nm value

Don’t bother. Lightly knock the spinner up with a lead hammer to centralise the tapers, lower the wheel to the ground and then bang it up until it stops tightening and the tone changes. 

[JohnC]

Before you do that, check how the splines look compared with Marco's pics. If the wheel splines are worn then your new splined hubs will wear faster than they should. TBH my guess is that you have cured only half the problem by replacing the hubs. In any case, have a look. If you decide new wheels are needed then you could get splined alloys to go with your nice new hubs!

JC