Hamish Posted July 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 thanks all it is quite possible that i had the belt a little tight ( ok too tight???) since changing to the alternator and the rose jointed adjuster. i will be more careful this time thanks for the advice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Hopefully parts arrive today Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Well the TRSHOP have done their bit just need the pump to turn up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Pump turned up looks damaged in transit ? ep services have said they will see me right so no quibble there good customer service from them ! but I have made the new pulley fit my pump so I should be able to race on Sunday. less than 4 miles after all. The only thing wrong with my pump was the spindle/woodruff key issues. the water pump bearings and seals are fine- then I will remove my pump and send both pumps back and ep can rebuild mine and set the pulley. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Good luck for Sunday Hamish - after these trials and tribulations you deserve it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 That thread damage was not caused "in transit" it has been cross threaded at some point. Any way good luck on Sunday. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2021 my temp heath Robinson press fit got me through my completion runs on sunday. probably and idiot question !! but in this water pump / pulley scenario does the woodruff key act as a locator ( doesn't seem to be a need for that, as no timing is critical) or does it act to prevent the pulley spinning on the shaft (that it didn't do hence the damage), ie resist the spin on the shaft.? i suspect the latter given the damage etc, if so in the pics, does the key sit proud enough to do its job ? i'm considering trying to get the mangled key out of my pump shaft as i think the pump part is ok ! i can then use the new key and the new pulley ( currently temporarily pressed on my pump) and just send the damaged "new"pump back. if the old key comes out and if the new key needs to sit higher could i put some wire or similar in the keyway to lift the ket to be more proud ? thus only send my pump for refurb if i can't get the key out !! H Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 The woodruff key is available seperately from Moss. I was wondering if the change to alluminium for the pulley with the narrow belt kit is a weakness. Also it is neccessary for the belt to be quite tight with an alternator otherwise it will slip on the fairly small alternator pulley, so that puts extra side loading on the water pump pulley. The TR6 uses a very similar looking pump which is available with a pressed on pulley or a bolt on pulley, and the pulley is available, presumably in steel, priced at £1.96p at the moment on Moss website. Has anyone compared one of these TR 5/6 pumps with that on the TR3? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) If urgently needed and you own a lathe you can DIY woodruff keys from standard machining steel Edited July 14, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 Hi Hamish, have you considered buying a new pump from Moss/TRshop etc? https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/water-pump-no-pulley-classic-gold-qhqcp170cg.html?assoc=610362 Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 Hi Thanks for all the help so far. I now have a little time between competitions to look at this one. apart from the chewed up pulley and woodruff key I believe my pump is serviceable as shown this weekend at loton hill climb. The pulley was a very snug fit on the shaft. So my challenge is getting the mangled key out of the shaft. I know there are concerns about the shaft condition but it seems to work. if I can I would be happy just to replace the key. the EP service pump needs returning regardless - they came highly recommended and I just think they had a senior moment sending what they did. if I can’t get the key out I will have to think again about which pump to get. I have ordered new gaskets, key and long stud to replace the bolt at the 7pm position as suggested on this subject. I hope to get to it this week but wedding anniversary tomorrow and I think I need to watch what my priorities should be this week. !! I truly appreciate all the help and support from the whole forum family. It kept me racing on Sunday and I did my best time at this venue Thank you. perhaps Wayne or John M could supply some forum focused car stickers for my car if I could find space !! as I blow the club trumpet quite loud as it is on that front ( even though sadly the clubs 50th slide by under COVID) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 Just drill and mill pin it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, ntc said: Just drill and mill pin it +1 Morgan used a cotter pin not unlike the one that holds your pedal crank to the bottom bracket spindle. The pump shaft had a flat on one side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 The woodruff key should come out fairly easily. Use a small sharp chisel to get under one end of it, & tap it back & out. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 Well what a day. it’s a few days off work for me. my wedding anniversary today and I get car time suzie has done a 16mile training run and I get garage time. So pump off again- pulley off pump. No additional damage. I filed down the mangled woodruff key to show the key outline in the shaft. Some heavy tapping rocked the key on its D shape out of the shaft successfully. Under the circlip of the pump there is sealed modern type bearing. It all spins very freely and vey quietly. so I will fit a stud instead of the bolt to the pump housing and a new key to MY pump and reassemble. then return the damaged pump for a refund. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 Result! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 Well done Hamish. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 Thanks guys a small win by your standards but a win none the less. And I have learnt what to do with woodruff keys your teachings are not in vein Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 A power hour in the garage saw me fit a stud to the engine block pump housing thread locked. This replaces the std long bolt that is captive when the pulley is fitted and bloody inconvenient. thanks for the tip Peter. I also flatted the new woodruff key so it’s a tight fit in the shaft with bearing fit goo ( the excess was cleaned off !) and a tight fit with the pulley. tomorrow will be gasket fitting with goo and final fit of pump. Then send the bent replacement pump back to supplier as the actual final fix for this is a new pulley and a woodruff key !!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 Hope you can get the pulley on, I usually arrange for the woodruff key to be angled very slightly the other way to yours, to guide the pulley over it. Not a problem if the pulley slot is deep enough though. It may be worth putting some form of "glue" ie locktite etc on the shaft to take up any gaps. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 (edited) All trial fitted dry and it all fits well I also think this set up has the woodruff key a little more proud of the shaft thus a better fit in the pulley key way and the telltale marks in the pulley suggested a very snug fit and yes I added a smear of the thread/bearing lock to the pulley for final fit then left it to set pulley down so any locking fluid wouldn’t get to the bearing etc. Edited July 16, 2021 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 Excellent ! Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 Properly fitted but yet to run up to temp and a proper test run. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) Well, I have had a busy few days and not been home to use (test) the car so with a day off work I will take the car for a drive after running it up to temp. if it copes with today ……….. i hope it does as well as suzie did on Sunday at the Lancaster marathon ( just a training run for her charity run round Anglesey - a marathon a TRAINING RUN !!!!) she knocked 20 mins off her personal best time and was the 2nd lady to finish over all !! it was crazy hot !!! Well done suzie proud of you Edited July 20, 2021 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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