T Rusty Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 Car in need of total restoration. There is no evidence of prior accident damage that I can see. One picture shows inside of right front fender with lots of undercoating but no rust or damage. Both sides and the front are like this. On the right side, the door at the top front sticks out about 3/4” and won’t align even with pressure. The back and bottom easily close and align and door gaps could be made to look pretty good too. Both doors have had considerable work done and look finished. The workmanship looks good from the eye of an amateur. The door hinges look original but look big and thick and heavy to my inexperienced eyeball. The A post has old sloppy welding at the top, above the upper hinge, but I’ve seen similar welds on various parts of my 3A. Could it be A post was replaced? The skuttle shows no damage anywhere. The floors were rusted out and inner and outer sills had poor work done. The rear of car had minor parking lot damage and some rust but everything fit. Any idea where I should start with the door? Thanks, Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) My brother has just done all this. How is the door profile to the front wing? Repro wings may need to have the lower bracket that attaches the wing to the sill 'adjusted', same goes for the bolting panel to the A post. Is the sill to door bottom gap OK? - If too low A post perhaps needs lifting upwards from the inner sill. When the door is closed is there a gap at the top curve to the scuttle if the door was closing in fully and pushed into the hole? Again scuttle or A post repositioning may be required if no gap exists. To correct the profile to scuttle aperture curve - Hack saw the inner door frame near the weld/above the curved skin swage, and gently bend the skin inwards to improve the fit to the scuttle aperture curve. Had to do this to a NOS door! If the entire aperture/hole is too small you are probably in for lifting the scuttle from the top of the A post. - You will need to split the bulkhead side panel from the inner sill to do this and then carefully jack the scuttle up. Stuart will be along in a moment and explain more clearly. Cheers Peter W Edited March 10, 2021 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: My brother has just done all this. How is the door profile to the front wing? Repro wings may need to have the lower bracket that attaches the wing to the sill 'adjusted', same goes for the bolting panel to the A post. Is the sill to door bottom gap OK? - If too low A post perhaps needs lifting upwards from the inner sill. When the door is closed is there a gap at the top curve to the scuttle if the door was closing in fully and pushed into the hole? Again scuttle or A post repositioning may be required if no gap exists. To correct the profile to scuttle aperture curve - Hack saw the inner door frame near the weld/above the curved skin swage, and gently bend the skin inwards to improve the fit to the scuttle aperture curve. Had to do this to a NOS door! If the entire aperture/hole is too small you are probably in for lifting the scuttle from the top of the A post. - You will need to split the bulkhead side panel from the inner sill to do this and then carefully jack the scuttle up. Stuart will be along in a moment and explain more clearly. Cheers Peter W You have pretty much covered it Pete, TBH with a sidescreen car you do whatever it takes to make stuff fit after all the factory did! Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted March 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 Pater, Unfortunately the original wings were taken away by a Meister for cosmetic work. He disappeared with them and people who followed up on it for me said he was not a good person and to forget the parts, they were probably traded for drugs. He seemed like a nice guy. A family man. We talked about his two children and what he planned to buy them for Christmas. Two years ago. Only the bonnet and two front wings fit into his car at the time. Such a trustworthy type if he had a trailer I’d have probably had him take the whole car. It is said live and learn. I’m 76 and I so far I have only lived. Anyway, the original wings fit very well. I’ve just found this picture of the car as bought and it looks as if the door is sticking out there too. And I’m looking for two front wings in repairable condition but I think Brexit, etc. will put them out of my price range if they come from the UK. Door bottom gap looks very good. If the door could close it would fit and gap would be good with a bit of minor adjusting. The gap in the back is a little wider at the bottom than the top but I’ve wrestled with the whole body so often that’s probably my doing. Cutting the door frame and bending the metal occurred to me too but what I think I’ll do next visit is take the door off completely and see how it fits without hinges and confirm that the curvature matches the scuttle at least. If there was visible accident damage I’d expect a bent A post. Anyway, Thank you Peter and Stuart, I appreciate the thoughts very much. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keith Wigglesworth Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 I am Peter W’s brother and I have been working with a very dodgy TR 2 body. Yours looks quite good in some areas. I was told by someone with TR rebuild experience to get the door gaps sorted before you do anything else and then work out from there. Your door alignment looks like mine did when I started. This was the result of my 1980s over enthusiastic fitting of an a post using gas welding and not paying attention to the skuttle drooping and throwing the A post out of alignment. I would suggest you cut the A post at the top where it has been poorly welded and adjust to the line where the door aligns to skuttle and the wing line. This is difficult but tacking and a large hammer do the trick. before you commit on the A post make sure that all gaps and alignment are good. Make sure gap to sill below and horizontally is good. This may also involve some fiddling with inner sills. Also make sure the hinges don’t have any play in them before you set to work. I will try and find some more pictures of what I did. This one is ‘before’. I am using a 6mm rod to test all the door and other gaps. If you are painting with 2 pack you need more allowance. Cellulose is thinner. Keith W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 I had problems with the door catching on the sill at the rear lower end. I tried a number of modifications and noticed that many other owners had the same problem. Peter W fitted s/s hinge pins and the sill/door gap is now 1/4" . At last I am able to have a sill plate. I am now looking for one with Moores of Brighton , just for nostalgia, because they were my main agent before Cox and Buckles got going. Keep the hinges but replace the pins before welding anything. Good luck Richard & B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted March 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 Great info, I’m printing it out to absorb later. Thanks. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keith Wigglesworth Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 Just a small addition to my post. I do not have any pics of the cutting of the A post unfortunately. And on reflection my rod for door gaps is 5mm not 6. I was getting confused with metric and imperial conversion. The normally quoted imperial measurement is 3/16in. also you need to get the front wings before you get going with the doors. The repro A posts can be a poor fit. When I did mine I just used the bottom third and welded on. Good luck Keith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted March 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 Thanks again Keith. Your info is noted. I now have two very ugly wings that fit poorly so are not much help. The right one overlapped the door by about 3/8”. Door gaps of 5mm noted. I have a bunch of photos I can’t find taken when the car arrived. When I find them i hope it will give a better idea of how things fit together then. The hinges are wiggly by the way. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 43 minutes ago, T Rusty said: Thanks again Keith. Your info is noted. I now have two very ugly wings that fit poorly so are not much help. The right one overlapped the door by about 3/8”. Door gaps of 5mm noted. I have a bunch of photos I can’t find taken when the car arrived. When I find them i hope it will give a better idea of how things fit together then. The hinges are wiggly by the way. Paul Side step to hinge pin replacement Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffR Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) The problem is that the top door hinge is not the correct size for the car. The throw out from the A post is far too large. I suggest you measure the hinge against an original before messing with the other bodywork dimensions Cheers, JeffR Edited March 11, 2021 by JeffR speling eror Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 The " old sloppy welding" at the top of the A post looks like original factory sloppy welding to me. I don`t think the A post has been replaced. The tin ware on the rest of the car seems good too. I would suspect the door before diving in and cutting the body bulkhead. Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
R.M. Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said: The " old sloppy welding" at the top of the A post looks like original factory sloppy welding to me. I don`t think the A post has been replaced. The tin ware on the rest of the car seems good too. I would suspect the door before diving in and cutting the body bulkhead. Ralph sloppy factory welding i would agree with that, looks like my car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 14 hours ago, JeffR said: The problem is that the top door hinge is not the correct size for the car. The throw out from the A post is far too large. I suggest you measure the hinge against an original before messing with the other bodywork dimensions Cheers, JeffR I think you`ll find that is a correct hinge. Its the door thats more the problem, I would cut it across the frame inside at the level of the swage line and bend the top in and re-weld, Ive done this loads of times when having to replace odd doors. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted March 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 I wire brushed the weld and although sloppy I think it’s original. I removed the hinges and the door fit curve to swage perfectly, front and back. From the front down to outer sill fit is good too but doesn’t come close to meeting the joint line. Are they supposed to meet? See picture. Bottom door gap is about an 1/8”. The rear part of door gap at the top is okay and meets the swage perfectly but going downward from the top to bottom the gap shrinks until the door overlaps the “B” post by about 3/16” at the bottom. There was a lot of poor work done on the rear part of the outer sill, so gaps and fit not a concern for now until the new sill, etc. are being welded in. The door has had a lot of work done. The blue is original color. Thanks for all comments and suggestions. I don’t think I’ve proved anything but gives me a lot to think about until next visit to my garage. I think the easiest would be to weld the door shut and just leap (or crawl) over the sill. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 The door still needs cutting across the frame and bent inwards to suit the scuttle, Yes thats original factory weld at the top of the "A" Post. Looks like the sill is on too far forward but until you get a wing on its difficult to tell, as the door over laps the "B" post at the bottom its possible that someone when replacing the floors has brought the rear too far forward as well. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
R.M. Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) just looked at mine, the sill is the same, a 10mm gap from the end of the sill to the pillar, for the wing to slot into, and the stepped end on the sill 20mm from the pillar, so it looks the same as mine, so i don't think your sill has been replaced. looks factory to me. Edited March 15, 2021 by R.M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
R.M. Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 be wary of cutting anything until you have exhausted all the ways of trial fitting. your car looks as though it is original and has not been messed about with in the past, in other words like mine an import not a UK car, am i right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted March 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Yes, import out of U.S. The floors were original but nearly non-existent. I agree, I’ll give it a lot more thought before cutting anything. Ive tapped out the rusty bolt holes and will mount the wing property to get a better idea of how it all fits together. Thanks for comments. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
R.M. Posted March 16, 2021 Report Share Posted March 16, 2021 yes mine was too and although probably sniffed at by many UK purists for not being a UK car even though it was on the same production line, an import can be the best way of getting a decent condition car, i like to follow as many big Healey restorations as i can but the going price for one for restoration starts at £15,000 and go up to £25,000 and i often wonder what you get for your money seeing as many need a complete body replacement, all you seem to get for your money is an engine running gear and an old vin tag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted March 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2021 I’ve always been a big Healey fan too but the TR3 already stretches the budget (and strains the marriage).to the limit. Also what I like about the TR3, is most parts j can handle alone if no one is around to help. I’ve finished a US TR3A that was a rusty non original mess but I built it to drive, not so much to show. I drive it to car shows to admire restored Triumphs brought in on covered trailers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted March 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 Keith, and all others...I took your advice and correctly bolted on the ugly right front wing first. I’m impressed, all bolt holes lined up. When I tightened up the bolts, the fit to door improved a lot. See the picture. Thanks to all for the advice, next visit to garage I’ll try the door with hinges. Suddenly the ugly wing doesn’t look so bad. All the holes lined up without the need of foul language and a hammer. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
R.M. Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 don't look none to bad either, gaps look good, glad you resisted any proposed cutting, just a matter of persistence, which you obviously have an abundance of. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 When you fit a chassis under it the gaps will go all over the place. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
T Rusty Posted March 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 Peter, that doesn’t scare me a bit... Actually I’m at the thinking and tinkering stage. Since the floors are nearly non-existent I did some measuring and eye-balling the new ones today and it looks like they will fit pretty well. I’m thinking of putting them in with pop-rivets to hold everything together for now, then tackling the sills. Uncovered enough of the right sill today to discover the original Winchester blue paint. And I agree, fitting the doors will involve a lot of head scratching and more visits to the forum. After the floors are in I’ll set the body back on the chassis, then start with the doors. The chassis shows floors bolted on (just for entertainment purposes). Thanks to all for help and comments. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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